birdie_man
New
Just checking but I assume you know the face is more of a factor in starting diretion yes?
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Got to love these PGA articles!
- Thread starter Steve Khatib
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Matt Bryda
New
pjrgolf,
Any mention of the D Plane??
Trackman??
Matt
Phil Rosenbaum
New
Trackman, YES
D-plane, NO
But they did bash trackman a bit, and try to lobby that the clubhead speed readings are often a bit low, I am not sure of that, maybe the guys here who use trackman ( Kevin S ) can comment on the club head speed accuracy.
D-plane, NO
But they did bash trackman a bit, and try to lobby that the clubhead speed readings are often a bit low, I am not sure of that, maybe the guys here who use trackman ( Kevin S ) can comment on the club head speed accuracy.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
I would think that is agenda driven. I think its fine.....no proof. Tuxen says accurate to 1/2 mph. On Trackman my clubhead speed goes down with S&T type stuff and up with a PB RU & Jump. No bias, thats just what I found.
But again, I have no proof other than Trackman's word. Perhaps jaridyard could chime in with an opinion.
But again, I have no proof other than Trackman's word. Perhaps jaridyard could chime in with an opinion.
softconsult
New
I don't really have any expertise on this, only logic. So the Trackman is off on the low side guys, must have another brand of launch monitor to which they make their comparison. Given that Trackman is the highest price point it would stand to reason that it is more accurate, not less. Likely that their equipment is reading high. Based on personal experience, I guarantee that my former local fitter has his Zelocity jacked up in some way.
What difference does it make anyway? Clubhead speed doesn't necessarily equal the best ball speed number.
What difference does it make anyway? Clubhead speed doesn't necessarily equal the best ball speed number.
Matt Bryda
New
It seems that a few tour pros have purchased a Trackman.
I wonder how many have purchased a Trackman in the last year?
Matt
Scott Fossum
New
I am a PGA member and am often shocked by how bad my fellow professionals teach. I have numerous students who have been with other instructors and yet have absolutely no idea of the ball flight laws. (either "new" or "old" laws) My question to the forum would be how do students choose an instructor? Is it reputation, marketing, word of mouth? I would be interested in hearing thoughts from golfers who regulary take lessons and their personal experiences from different instructors.
gmbtempe
New
everyone says its easy, just ask around....well none of my friends have had lessons.
I think its actually hard to find an instructor without flying blind.
When I was ready for a lesson, without knowing much about where or who to go to, I went to the teaching pro at the course where I played and practiced. After a few lessons, I realized the lessons were not helping and didn't take another lesson until finding this website. Then went to see Brian on a tour stop.
Otherwise, from talking to other golfers, they take lessons from mostly word of mouth and location. Except for the teaching pro who is now at the course by my house who is the son of a fairly famous pga, senior pga, former Ryder cup captain and is now working with a lot of pros on their putting. He gets alot of students from the name and reputation.
Phil Rosenbaum
New
correction.....the only bashing of trackman was about the clubhead speed numbers...
softconsult
New
"I have numerous students who have been with other instructors and yet have absolutely no idea of the ball flight laws. (either "new" or "old" laws)"
So I have carved out on limited aspect of golf , namely ball flight laws. Something about this statement deserves some reflection. What I would ask is why we should expect that golf students should gain this information only from an instructor? What I'm getting at is that many, many, people refuse to do any work to educate themselves. In the age of Google, it is depressing to learn that not only golf instructors, but students paying money to learn aren't doing their home work.
I get this all the time in my consulting business, and got it all the time during my management years. People want it spoon fed to them. They don't want to crack a book.
So I have carved out on limited aspect of golf , namely ball flight laws. Something about this statement deserves some reflection. What I would ask is why we should expect that golf students should gain this information only from an instructor? What I'm getting at is that many, many, people refuse to do any work to educate themselves. In the age of Google, it is depressing to learn that not only golf instructors, but students paying money to learn aren't doing their home work.
I get this all the time in my consulting business, and got it all the time during my management years. People want it spoon fed to them. They don't want to crack a book.
Yeah but it's still not out in the mainstream about D-plane and the correct ball flight laws. We should expect the instructors to have the correct info, i mean their the ones putting themselves out there as experts.
They are the teachers, they are suppose to pass along the correct info to us the student, it's their responsibility to do the homework and find out, after all that's what we pay them for.
If i decide to go it alone then it's my responsibility.
TROYNYGOLFER
New
LOLOL....I could write an essay on this topic. My original teacher was simply the guy who taught the multiple-week clinic that fit my schedule at the local range. I stayed with him for about 4-5 years. He was a part-timer who did it for enjoyment, he was old school ball flights, a method teacher, but never minded if I deviated from his method provided I got results.
When I maxed out on his ability, that is when it got ugly. A strict method/video and pics with lines everywhere-type instructor recommended as the best in the area screwed my game up for an entire year. A Section Teacher of the Year was not much better. Three more recommendations had me pronating arms, swinging to right field, early wrist cocking, late wrist hinging, and many other "cures" which little results. An expensive golf "academy" provided great food, but the same instruction.
Then I found this forum and got recommendations for an instructor, went to see the closest guy and in fifteen minutes saw and felt more improvement than in the previous two years.
Instruction
I have been around the instruction ferris wheel on more rides than I want to think about. It took me a year to lose a slice but I still couldn't hit the ball more than 200 yards. Went to GolfTec for 10 lessons of which they spent 6 trying to get me to restrict my hip turn (it was 68 degrees). Later on another guy cured my hip turn in two minutes and helped me a little but it didn't last. Even did a stint recently with the Peak Performance Golf Swing. A friend at work turned me on to Brian and I've learned more in the last two weeks then I have in probably 10 years. Oh, I forgot, in September I ran into Phil Ritson at a Futures Tour event in Albany, NY and he gave me some tips that are the same as Brian's and they work.
Brian is the real deal. Oh yeah, thanks to Brian I picked up 50 yards with the driver. I like that.
I have been around the instruction ferris wheel on more rides than I want to think about. It took me a year to lose a slice but I still couldn't hit the ball more than 200 yards. Went to GolfTec for 10 lessons of which they spent 6 trying to get me to restrict my hip turn (it was 68 degrees). Later on another guy cured my hip turn in two minutes and helped me a little but it didn't last. Even did a stint recently with the Peak Performance Golf Swing. A friend at work turned me on to Brian and I've learned more in the last two weeks then I have in probably 10 years. Oh, I forgot, in September I ran into Phil Ritson at a Futures Tour event in Albany, NY and he gave me some tips that are the same as Brian's and they work.
Brian is the real deal. Oh yeah, thanks to Brian I picked up 50 yards with the driver. I like that.Scott Fossum
New
Thanks for the replies to my post. I am always interested in learning how to help others with their games and it's great to hear experiences from students, very helpful to me. Also, I didn't mean to imply that there aren't lots of tremendous teachers in the PGA ranks, just that overall I think the profession needs an upgrade in that department. Of course, not all instructors have the desire, talent and dedication that Brian Manzella has.
Matt Bryda
New
Based on the information from BManz, TGM, and Trackman students should say to their instructors, "Help me get to ZEROs" instead of well, I'm just not very consistent and I would like to hit it farther than the guys I play with.
Maybe ten years from now this is what students will ask of their instructors.
Matt
Maybe ten years from now this is what students will ask of their instructors.
Matt
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
that would be nice if the questions from students were more along these lines. Students should realize how much some lessons can improve by the quality of the questions from them.
softconsult
New
"Yeah but it's still not out in the mainstream about D-plane and the correct ball flight laws. We should expect the instructors to have the correct info, i mean their the ones putting themselves out there as experts.
They are the teachers, they are suppose to pass along the correct info to us the student, it's their responsibility to do the homework and find out, after all that's what we pay them for.
If i decide to go it alone then it's my responsibility."
Dream land. Kind of like me saying that I expect all posters on this forum to spell correctly, and use correct punctuation, such as capitalization. Simply not reality.
For that matter, if you read business letters written by managers, since the time that the PC replaced secretaries, you will see that writing skills are mostly awful? They always were, but the secretaries fixed things.
Students are, for the most part, sheep. They are, for the most part, either too lazy to study, or not smart enough to educate themselves. That sounds harsh, but, in my experience, a high percentage of people have trouble learning from books. Take software application user manuals. Trust me people don't read them.
They are the teachers, they are suppose to pass along the correct info to us the student, it's their responsibility to do the homework and find out, after all that's what we pay them for.
If i decide to go it alone then it's my responsibility."
Dream land. Kind of like me saying that I expect all posters on this forum to spell correctly, and use correct punctuation, such as capitalization. Simply not reality.
For that matter, if you read business letters written by managers, since the time that the PC replaced secretaries, you will see that writing skills are mostly awful? They always were, but the secretaries fixed things.
Students are, for the most part, sheep. They are, for the most part, either too lazy to study, or not smart enough to educate themselves. That sounds harsh, but, in my experience, a high percentage of people have trouble learning from books. Take software application user manuals. Trust me people don't read them.
Matt Bryda
New
From my experience when a student has a specific issue they want fixed it's much easier to work with the student. This is rare but it does happen and yes, it is usually the avid golfer that is the one with more specific questions/issues about their game.
softconsult
New
I would think that a successful instructor needs to master open ended questioning techniques. My experience is that this is the best way to open lines of communication. With most people you have to sort of drag it out of them.
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