Hands Forward the Proper Way

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JonWil

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Is there a proper way to arrive at impact with the hands forward that does not
de-loft the club head? Or, is this de-lofting something the golfer has to live with if executing a hands forward strike? My concern is lack of height when hitting irons.
 
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savydan

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Hands forward will de-loft the face in general.

But the angle of attack is independent of the face direction.

You may want to try a little de-loft, but with LESS NEGATIVE angle of attack.
 
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ej20

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JonWil said:
Is there a proper way to arrive at impact with the hands forward that does not
de-loft the club head? Or, is this de-lofting something the golfer has to live with if executing a hands forward strike? My concern is lack of height when hitting irons.
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What is your clubhead speed?If it is not tour standard then you don't want to hit tour standard height otherwise you are flipping it.Most pros deloft some because they have forward hands at impact but they still get plenty of height due to their high clubhead speeds.All things being equal,higher CS results in higher shots.

We all want a high ball with forward hands but one has to be realistic given ones clubhead speed.Not all of us can hit a 3 iron as high as our 9 iron the proper way.It's important you don't force height on mid and long irons because it can induce a flip into your swing.
 
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JonWil

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savydan said:
Hands forward will de-loft the face in general.

But the angle of attack is independent of the face direction.

You may want to try a little de-loft, but with LESS NEGATIVE angle of attack.
Click to expand...

ej20 said:
What is your clubhead speed?If it is not tour standard then you don't want to hit tour standard height otherwise you are flipping it.Most pros deloft some because they have forward hands at impact but they still get plenty of height due to their high clubhead speeds.All things being equal,higher CS results in higher shots.

We all want a high ball with forward hands but one has to be realistic given ones clubhead speed.Not all of us can hit a 3 iron as high as our 9 iron the proper way.It's important you don't force height on mid and long irons because it can induce a flip into your swing.
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Great comments; thanks for the insight.:)
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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JonWil said:
Is there a proper way to arrive at impact with the hands forward that does not
de-loft the club head? Or, is this de-lofting something the golfer has to live with if executing a hands forward strike? My concern is lack of height when hitting irons.
Click to expand...

When the butt end of the shaft is perpendicular to the Attack Angle, then we are applying the "designed" loft of the club (the tip of the shaft is bend forward at impact, adding a few degrees). So, if, for example, you're hitting down 4 degrees, then a forward shaft lean of 4 degrees is not delofting. Remember, the Spinloft is the difference between the Attack Angle and the Dynamic Loft. So, you must observe the "shaft lean" relative to the Attack Angle, to determine the loft that the ball "feels" (spinloft). If you're hitting down a few degrees, with the butt end of the club perpendicular to your Attack Angle (assuming center contact), and your ball flight is too low, then your clubs don't fit you. Look into a hybrid iron set with lighter graphite shafts.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Todd Dugan said:
When the butt end of the shaft is perpendicular to the Attack Angle, then we are applying the "designed" loft of the club (the tip of the shaft is bend forward at impact, adding a few degrees). So, if, for example, you're hitting down 4 degrees, then a forward shaft lean of 4 degrees is not delofting. Remember, the Spinloft is the difference between the Attack Angle and the Dynamic Loft. So, you must observe the "shaft lean" relative to the Attack Angle, to determine the loft that the ball "feels" (spinloft). If you're hitting down a few degrees, with the butt end of the club perpendicular to your Attack Angle (assuming center contact), and your ball flight is too low, then your clubs don't fit you. Look into a hybrid iron set with lighter graphite shafts.
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Just curious, is this from your own personal research.......the 4 and 4 thingy?
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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Kevin, no, it simply stems from the fact that the Static Loft of a club is measured with the shaft vertical to the ground. Since the Spinloft is measured relative to the Attack Angle, then when the shaft is vertical to the AA vector, then the Spinloft is the Static Loft of the club, plus forward shaft bend. Add a few degrees for the bend. Also, this assumes center impact, so no Vertical Gear Effect during impact.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Thats what i was getting at...the forward kick of the shaft, etc. Degrees of shaft lean never correlates with the dynamic loft.
 
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JonWil

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Todd Dugan said:
When the butt end of the shaft is perpendicular to the Attack Angle, then we are applying the "designed" loft of the club (the tip of the shaft is bend forward at impact, adding a few degrees). So, if, for example, you're hitting down 4 degrees, then a forward shaft lean of 4 degrees is not delofting. Remember, the Spinloft is the difference between the Attack Angle and the Dynamic Loft. So, you must observe the "shaft lean" relative to the Attack Angle, to determine the loft that the ball "feels" (spinloft). If you're hitting down a few degrees, with the butt end of the club perpendicular to your Attack Angle (assuming center contact), and your ball flight is too low, then your clubs don't fit you. Look into a hybrid iron set with lighter graphite shafts.
Click to expand...

Ah HA! Thanks Todd!
 
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savydan

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Can you set up at address with the face de-lofted?

If the answer is: of course, then why is it implied above that de-lofting can't be determined until the Angle of Attack occurs at impact?
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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savydan said:
Can you set up at address with the face de-lofted?

If the answer is: of course, then why is it implied above that de-lofting can't be determined until the Angle of Attack occurs at impact?
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Not be smart, but the ball doesn't care about address, only impact. The vertical angle of the clubface relative to the ground during impact is the Dynamic Loft. Frankly, the ball doesn't care about that, either. The loft that the ball "feels" is the vertical angle of the clubface relative to the Attack Angle during impact. This is the Spinloft. And to measure it, you must know the Attack Angle. So, a de-lofted Dynamic Loft does not neccasarily mean a de-lofted Spinloft.
 
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savydan

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If you're hitting down 4 degrees, then a forward shaft lean of 4 degrees is not delofting.

If you are implying that the face can't be defined until you know the path, then I would disagree with that.


The vertical angle of the clubface relative to the ground during impact is the Dynamic Loft. Frankly, the ball doesn't care about that, either.

The ball doesn't care about the Dynamic Loft? You can't determine Launch Angle from just Spin Loft.
 
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