Hands too far forward?

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lagster

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Goosen, Nicklaus, Weiskopf, Purtzer... all have lag. They just have more of a random sweep release, and do not sustain the lag as long a guys like Elkington, Faxon, and Byron Nelson.

I filmed some golfers once, as an experiment, making baseball swings. The guys that had more of a late release in golf, had a similar release in baseball, and the sweepers in golf were sweepers in baseball. Obviously, both types of releases have produced good golfers, and I suppose good baseball players.

There must be something that is instinctive, genetic, or conceptual that influences the type of release. I've noticed filming golfers that some brand new golfers have more of a natural snap release, late hit, trigger delay, etc., some have a random sweep...Weiskopf type, and many have nearly a full sweep. Lag, and Release, of course, are different things.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Brad Faxon and Billy Andrane BOTH are either SUPREME OVER-ACCELerators, or hitters mixing swing components or both.

Neither has any kind of 'model' swing.

Now Brady, If YOU want to teach high right shoulder and wide release, go ahead, but since all the gurus are teaching this and ALL of their players ARE NOT getting better....hmmm

Think about JoseMaria...Harmon got him a wide release and a high shoulder and wow he is playing really good now, right? Nope. Junk.

I think that 'poor' technique includes FORCED snap release, FORCED forward hands, etc...

Just do it right, and teach it right!
 
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dsmith2296

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I would like to see slow motion footage of Faxon's putting and compare that to footage of Goosen's. That'd be exciting. Faxon can read the hell out of those breaks.
 
Redgoat

Redgoat

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Archie,

Body type has absolutely nothing to do with hitting it straight.

I also don't believe there is something special in anyones DNA that makes them more accurate. The ball has no idea how you are built.

BTW, the only fade Faxon is hitting on that shot is going right to right.

Redgoat
 
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Archie Swivel

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Redgoat,

So would you say that golf is more of a game than a sport? Would you say athleticism is irrelevant? Is it really 100% mechanical? Is it like billiards? I do not have documented research to provide to you in support of my theory, so I'm shooting from the hip, but I just believe that neurons fire more efficiently in the brains of some specimens and some of the them just have a nack for timing. Some guys are just cock-strong and well-coordinated. I was and am I decent athlete, but nothing special. I can catch a 300 yard drive 1 out 50 times and throw a baseball 75 mph. But Tiger Woods, Retief Goosen and Ernie Els are simply extra-special physical specimens (strength + coordination). You can't teach that. All other things being equal, they will be better running backs, short-stops, bowlers and golfers than most of us on this forum.

Archie Swivel
 
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EdZ

New
Archie - agreed that folks have different builds, some have more natural strength - but what matters more in golf is efficient force, not muscle. Compare Faldo to CHIII. Faldo is a big guy, CHIII is a stick by comparison.

Technique matters.

As does conditioning. People react better to stimuli because of conditioning, especially skills learned very early in life. To suggest genetics is the cause, is both dangerous, and too simple a view.

And as far as lag/trigger delay - I think that effective use of lag 'pressure' is far more critical to an efficient motion than trigger delay.

Faxon and Andrade are both 'out of synch' with the hands/chest relationship, they break the line between the top of the spine, and wrists, and could both use a few 'headcover under the left arm' drills and some work on right arm extension.
 
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mb6606

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I have to agree with Archie. Some people are blessed with natrual abilities. Some people can throw harder, jump higher or swing a golf club incredibly fast. If it was simply mechanics woman (LPGA) would equal the men (PGA).
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Homer said that lag is like virtue, you can't have too much. And (9-2) Remove all pressures against "Power First". Power techniques are Power Control.

The fact is that max trigger delay and max lag give MAXIMUM power.
 
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EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by mb6606

I have to agree with Archie. Some people are blessed with natrual abilities. Some people can throw harder, jump higher or swing a golf club incredibly fast. If it was simply mechanics woman (LPGA) would equal the men (PGA).
Click to expand...

If you look at pound for pound, and height/arm/lever length, many of the ladies have a more efficient motion.
 
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EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Homer said that lag is like virtue, you can't have too much. And (9-2) Remove all pressures against "Power First". Power techniques are Power Control.

The fact is that max trigger delay and max lag give MAXIMUM power.
Click to expand...

Agreed
 
mgjordan

mgjordan

New
We all have to remember, though, that max trigger delay isn't an imperative. There are other options for release. The point of TGM is to pick and choose what work for YOU, not what looks the best or what made someone else successful.
 
Redgoat

Redgoat

New
Archie,

Of course strength, coordination, flexibility play a role. However, there are guys on tour that were great athletes(Andrade was an all state basketball star I believe) and some that are not. It is not a prerequisite to playing great golf.

The great thing about golf is it requires you to be accurate as well as powerful. That is why guys like Fred Funk, Corey Pavin, etc. can play at the highest level.

Don't sell yourself short, there are many average athletes on tour, and many more playing at your local municipal course who are under par. This is a game of skill, not athletic ability.

Redgoat
 
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FL-John

New
One thing to remember too, especially when looking at Faxon and Andrade. As the clubhead is trailing the hands, both comply with the Law of the Flail (i.e. Lag). However, having the hands forward at impact does not necessarily mean that there is Mass behind the lag! I could go out to the range and pull so damn hard with my left side to look like Faxon and Andrade, however, without Mass behind it, its an empty suit in my book!

FL-John
 
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holenone

Banned
Could Goosen be using a right arm swing? TGM says it is okay to hit hard and have a visibly bent left wrist with this.
 
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EdZ

New
The bent left wrist would only apply after separation, othewise, you would have almost certainly have throwaway and inefficient force - no lag pressure.

In theory, yes, you could have a very, very slight amount of bend, as long as:

1) the butt of the club is even or ahead of the sweetspot

2) the butt of the club still points at a point even with, or ahead of the 'hub' - the top of the spine/base of the neck, and item one is satisfied

Yes, a perfectly timed, and supported, right side would need to be in place for this to work, for both sides to balance perfectly

Hardly the margin for error you would want though, and you would give up 'mass'
 
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