Hinge Action, Rate of Closure, and what you SHOULD do with the clubface (p9 pic)

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Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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brianid said:
Tiger's R wrist is actually still bent at impact...it straightens because the L wrist rolls and starts to cup...

If a golfer's grip is L hand weak, with R hand weaker, straightening the R wrist will make his ball striking so inconsistent because he will be as if his R hand is trying to dump the clubhead to the ground vertically...
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Rubbish. Mehlhorn was Hogan's idol as the best from tee to green with no contest. He was an antithesis of TGM jibberish. TGM spoilt so many swings and wasted so many hours that it is crazy.

Besides, if the RH grip is weaker than LH there is a much better increasing biokinetic scenario to merge ulnar deviation of the LH with flexion of the RH which means more stable wrists at impact. Refer please to RoMs of both movements and see why.

Cheers
 
B

brianid

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Dariusz J. said:
Rubbish. Mehlhorn was Hogan's idol as the best from tee to green with no contest. He was an antithesis of TGM jibberish. TGM spoilt so many swings and wasted so many hours that it is crazy.

Besides, if the RH grip is weaker than LH there is a much better increasing biokinetic scenario to merge ulnar deviation of the LH with flexion of the RH which means more stable wrists at impact. Refer please to RoMs of both movements and see why.

Cheers
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I'm saying you shouldn't even try to straighten the R wrist. Are we on the same page?

The moment you try to straighten the R wrist, that means your L forearm gets inline or parallel with the shaft. Why would one want that? That means any movement will affect the face 1:1.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
brianid said:
I'm saying you shouldn't even try to straighten the R wrist. Are we on the same page?

The moment you try to straighten the R wrist, that means your L forearm gets inline or parallel with the shaft. Why would one want that? That means any movement will affect the face 1:1.
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I do not think we are. I said before that straightening RH wrist and flexing LH wrist is NATURAL BIOPHYSICAL PHENOMENON that does not require any conscious action. If hinges are not being disturbed (e.g. via trying to hold them off deliberately) they will simply hinge. It is their job. They are created to give flexiblity of various movements in countless activities of a human. Why a golfer should try to eliminate it it is beyond my belief.

Lastly, I do not understand why you think your L forearm gets inline or parallel with the shaft. It is in line already before until impact then it gets parallel with the R forearm after impact. Here's the extreme example of the great Wild Bill:

10qh2f5.jpg
2ylqq8z.jpg
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Cheers
 
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brianid

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Dariusz J. said:
I do not think we are. I said before that straightening RH wrist and flexing LH wrist is NATURAL BIOPHYSICAL PHENOMENON that does not require any conscious action. If hinges are not being disturbed (e.g. via trying to hold them off deliberately) they will simply hinge. It is their job. They are created to give flexiblity of various movements in countless activities of a human. Why a golfer should try to eliminate it it is beyond my belief.

Lastly, I do not understand why you think your L forearm gets inline or parallel with the shaft. It is in line already before until impact then it gets parallel with the R forearm after impact. Here's the extreme example of the great Wild Bill:

10qh2f5.jpg
2ylqq8z.jpg
2aaiwav.jpg




Cheers
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By asking whether we're on the same page I'm asking if we are understanding each other, not necessarily agreeing with each other.

So you think one shouldn't INTENTIONALLY straighten the R wrist?
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
brianid said:
By asking whether we're on the same page I'm asking if we are understanding each other, not necessarily agreeing with each other.

So you think one shouldn't INTENTIONALLY straighten the R wrist?
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OK, so we are on the same page but disagreeing.

I am against ANY POSSIBLE conscious actions during the swing. Yes, I am against intentional straightening of the rear wrist as well as against intentional preventing. If a golfer has a good grip, good stance and good body turn he will deliver automatically a flat lead wrist/bent rear wrist at contact and will never maintain this any longer because the job is already done. Hope I am clear.

Cheers
 
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brianid

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Dariusz J. said:
OK, so we are on the same page but disagreeing.

I am against ANY POSSIBLE conscious actions during the swing. Yes, I am against intentional straightening of the rear wrist as well as against intentional preventing. If a golfer has a good grip, good stance and good body turn he will deliver automatically a flat lead wrist/bent rear wrist at contact and will never maintain this any longer because the job is already done. Hope I am clear.

Cheers
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Now you're clear.

I agree with you, except on the intentional prevention of straightening R wrist. I'm for preventing it, though in reality it will.

I hate the focus in here on the straightening R wrist. As if the wrists are the most efficient source of power...it should be the pivot--the shoulders...it is always capable of producing more CP force than the wrists...but for those who can't figure out the body movements to produce a fast pivot, I guess a wristy and handsy swing is in order...lol
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
brianid said:
Now you're clear.

I agree with you, except on the intentional prevention of straightening R wrist. I'm for preventing it, though in reality it will.

I hate the focus in here on the straightening R wrist. As if the wrists are the most efficient source of power...it should be the pivot--the shoulders...it is always capable of producing more CP force than the wrists...but for those who can't figure out the body movements to produce a fast pivot, I guess a wristy and handsy swing is in order...lol
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I would find it very strange if anyone focuses intentionally on a anatomical phenomenon that happen naturally enhanced by physics (gravity). I can imagine one wishes to prevent it from happening intentionally because of some strange prescription -- he has no choice but to introduce the intentional factor. But the other way ? Why one would like to try to help intentionally the inevitable and 100% natural ?

As regards the sources of power -- wrist hinge movements are very powerful; it is enough to see how big is the distance the clubhead travels when the wrist hinge (accumulated RoM can be in the range of 100-120 degrees). Even isolated wrist deviation movements with its accumulated RoM of ca. 50 degrees are very powerful -- think hammering nails with wrist motion only.

Cheers
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
A good grip, good stance and good body turn will only guarantee that a golfer has a good grip, good stance and good body turn.....nothing more.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
There's a lot of LOL and ROFL going on here......all over straightening right wrists. I love the visual of people rolling around laughing over their golf swing agendas.
 
Virtuoso

Virtuoso

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In the same way that it would be wrong to manually straighten the right wrist at the beginning of the baseball throw, it would wrong at the begining of the golf downswing.

In the same way it would be wrong to manually hold the right wrist bent as you released the baseball, it would be wrong to do same at impact with the golf swing.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
brianid said:
I hate the focus in here on the straightening R wrist. As if the wrists are the most efficient source of power...it should be the pivot--the shoulders...it is always capable of producing more CP force than the wrists...but for those who can't figure out the body movements to produce a fast pivot, I guess a wristy and handsy swing is in order...lol
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I am going to say this as plain as I can.

You have NO IDEA what I teach in a lesson.

You must think I am telling everyone to go from bent to arched through impact.

That is silliness.

I have given over 100 lessons the last three days in Union Square and have told exactly NOBIDY to do it.

But as sure as the sun comes up tomorrow morning, I'll have some HANDLE DRAGGER come to see me in New Orleans in two that will need to be taught EXACTLY THAT.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW"????????????????????????

wulsy said:
The ball would go right without a twist. According to the scientists, why is this?

No connection? Are you sure?
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I am 100% sure.

Why is this?

Really?

dbl said:
Would you believe it? A lot of people have the idea of holding the right wrist from releasing. :headbang: :confused:

Terrible affliction.

:)
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Exactly.

Geez....

Virtuoso said:
In the same way that it would be wrong to manually straighten the right wrist at the beginning of the baseball throw, it would wrong at the begining of the golf downswing.

In the same way it would be wrong to manually hold the right wrist bent as you released the baseball, it would be wrong to do same at impact with the golf swing.
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Double exactly.

Virtuoso said:
Yes, to say internet golf swing theory has become dogma is an understatement. :)
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The funny part is I can teach circles around all of the dogma-villians.
 
rcw

rcw

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What happened to DT yesterday? Is that really a question you expect Brian to be able to tell you?
It is the US Open at a tough course period. It ain't easy to put good rounds together 4 days in a row...
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
Kevin Shields said:
A good grip, good stance and good body turn will only guarantee that a golfer has a good grip, good stance and good body turn.....nothing more.
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You sure ? Or maybe you are clueless what good fundamentals can do to a golfer ?

ms1170 said:
I'm always worried that Dariusz is going to hurt himself with all the rolling around he does.
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ROFL. Do not worry about Dariusz. He knows much more about human body movements than anyone on this board, I think.

Cheers
 
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