Brian has posted that Herbert Warren Wind wrote 5 Lessons, not Hogan. And Wind was a hacker. Do some research.
Hogan and Project 1.68
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Brian has posted that Herbert Warren Wind wrote 5 Lessons, not Hogan. And Wind was a hacker. Do some research.
i have a lot of respect for ben hogan but i am of the school that "5 lessons" isn't good advice for the average golfer.
and the (almost) deification of some of these guys (like hogan) and even some teachers or swing concepts just sits weird with me. yes, there is plenty to learn from. but everyone's got to find their swing.
and the (almost) deification of some of these guys (like hogan) and even some teachers or swing concepts just sits weird with me. yes, there is plenty to learn from. but everyone's got to find their swing.
Dariusz J.
New member
As Hogan said - the most important is to know where to look and not parroting the motion blindly without paying a great attention to details of setup. One needs to see the big picture of 5L to understand its value.
You say that Hogan has nothing with science ? Imagine then that his stance diagramme is just anticipation of what D-Plane calls for 50 years later. He invented his mental personal Trackman before Tuxen was born.
Cheers
You say that Hogan has nothing with science ? Imagine then that his stance diagramme is just anticipation of what D-Plane calls for 50 years later. He invented his mental personal Trackman before Tuxen was born.
Cheers
This statement is so riddled with errors and contradictions that I don't even know where to begin...
What is a mentor? Sometimes a local golf pro with about as much golf knowledge as my wife or Hank Haney. Those players became great despite bad information, bad tips, etc. through repetition. The only true measure of any swing, orthodox or not, is it's ability to repeat.
As far as young golfers on the tour being scientifically more sound or at the very least trained is more than a slight exaggeration. Most college programs don't have Trackman or Flightscope and the ones that do would need someone like Brian or Kevin to explain how to use it.
Ryo Ishikawa is a fantastic young player and athlete with a bright future. But he, like most young strong players, overuse their pivots (because they can) and get really good, despite dragging the piss out of the handle. Which brings us back to repetition.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Fantastic post. Sums up a lot. I know a guy who would not like to hear this.
Are you serious? Have you read any of the release thread? Did you not look at those old black & white photos, because its a funny thing. This 'new' science, that we've only just discovered - they were all doing it. They just didn't know it
While keeping on the subject of Kevin's why did Hogan collapse in some majors he still has the longest streak of top 10's in majors which stands at 18.
This is not bad for a high school dropout!!!!
Along with the 64 wins do we really think that any young player coming not out of high school but out of college tutored with the greatest fitness coach, the greatest mind coach, the backing of 1 billion dollars,trained on trackman and all the scientific men in the world helping him or her can even sniff the above record?
Today we consider Luke Donald as a great player and #1 at with the solo victory in the U.S. 10 months ago i argued with everyone on the Bubba Watson greatness theory i still stand my ground Bubba can't sniff it.
Hogan said it clear if he had video and technology like the kids have today he would of doubled the wins now thats scary!
To the comments of the book five lessons its obvious one does not understand the golf swing to appreciate the value in it game set match on that and remember never in the book does he tell you how to aim so he was beyond trackman yrs.
Most major colleges have trackman which is great and helpful but i ask this question will a college player ever win like Mr. Hogan and if you answer no then why not learn from success instead of someone who wins once?
This is not bad for a high school dropout!!!!
Along with the 64 wins do we really think that any young player coming not out of high school but out of college tutored with the greatest fitness coach, the greatest mind coach, the backing of 1 billion dollars,trained on trackman and all the scientific men in the world helping him or her can even sniff the above record?
Today we consider Luke Donald as a great player and #1 at with the solo victory in the U.S. 10 months ago i argued with everyone on the Bubba Watson greatness theory i still stand my ground Bubba can't sniff it.
Hogan said it clear if he had video and technology like the kids have today he would of doubled the wins now thats scary!
To the comments of the book five lessons its obvious one does not understand the golf swing to appreciate the value in it game set match on that and remember never in the book does he tell you how to aim so he was beyond trackman yrs.
Most major colleges have trackman which is great and helpful but i ask this question will a college player ever win like Mr. Hogan and if you answer no then why not learn from success instead of someone who wins once?
Lindsey Newman
New
What is funny to me is that we think any information is new.
All great ball strikers have been utilizing traits of all of this "new information" since the beginning. The science is just clarifying what is important and what is not. Back in the day I used to think closed stances with long clubs and open stances with short clubs were just old "band aides" that old timers used because the could not control their path. Nope, they knew it all along because of trial and error. Same with the idea of hitting down. I had this 60's something ex- tour player say to me: "you hit down on the ball to much, your wasting all your power with your irons". I thought: " whatever old man, I know how to compress a golf shot without flipping it". Of course, he was right.
Bottom line, none of this is new. The progress in what BManz and team are doing is that we no longer have to guess, we no longer have to question, and we don't need anecdotal words or phrases to help folks swing better. We have science verified knowledge.
All great ball strikers have been utilizing traits of all of this "new information" since the beginning. The science is just clarifying what is important and what is not. Back in the day I used to think closed stances with long clubs and open stances with short clubs were just old "band aides" that old timers used because the could not control their path. Nope, they knew it all along because of trial and error. Same with the idea of hitting down. I had this 60's something ex- tour player say to me: "you hit down on the ball to much, your wasting all your power with your irons". I thought: " whatever old man, I know how to compress a golf shot without flipping it". Of course, he was right.
Bottom line, none of this is new. The progress in what BManz and team are doing is that we no longer have to guess, we no longer have to question, and we don't need anecdotal words or phrases to help folks swing better. We have science verified knowledge.
So with that in mind as a serious player do you listen or argue? If Trackman says hey your hitting down on it too much how do you adjust on the 1st fairway when you have to hit 180 over a bunker into the wind? All the scientific answers are there but as humans we still have to hit the shot in competition?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I think we will be able to virtualize Hogan's swing in 6 dof-3D and then do the math and precisely figure out what he did.
Hogan did NOT think 5 Lessons was a real book, and in fact it wasn't. Hogan said that if he ever wrote a book it would be "this thick" (holding his thumb and middle finger far apart).
Palmer dad was a pro. Nicklaus took lessons his whole life.
Sorry.
I had Steve in a cage, and let him out to play, but the leash needs to be shorter.
His swing would be validated with science, along with why he hit it as short as he did for as strong as he was.
It won't take that long.
Wind wrote the 5 articles.
Geez, I bet a BUNCH of good stuff went into the waste basket.
I think almost every golf book has good advice in it. One day I will explain a book every couple of months or so.
Hogan knew some stuff.
Are you serious? Have you read any of the release thread? Did you not look at those old black & white photos, because its a funny thing. This 'new' science, that we've only just discovered - they were all doing it. They just didn't know it
Exactly.
He did say that.
But that tour, and this tour are a bit different.
Hogan's clubs were so different, he COULD NOT SWING LIKE HE DID with today's clubs.
Fact.
That's a great post.
We are just trying to take the BS out.
Well....
What if you had hit 10,000 180-yard shots into the wind on TrackMan?
Why change clubs? My height and weight have not changed in 30 yrs but club manufactures changed drivers specs to 4 more degrees upright-no reason too. Irons changed to more forgiving- Wrong again that dosen't help the swing it could help someone's score? Hogan would refuse to hit todays clubs so you cant compare!
Still no guarantee of doing it in competition. Trackman gives me the data but it dosen't give the correction of the error?
Lindsey Newman
New
That's why you have a swing coach, right? To create the swing pattern to match the needed trackman data.
Lindsey Newman
New
Yes! I alter my swing all the time while I play. If I am hitting a draw or a fade, if I'm hitting it off a tight wet lie or if I need to spin it more. All of that is playing golf. I'm not gonna just hit steep shot after steep shot because I know the correction. Having trained it in front of Trackman, I know what technique actually works.
Do you think if you never trained in front of trackman you could never figure this out? What if say day 2 of competition some other issue came about and there was no trackman on site now what? what do we lean on?
Lindsey Newman
New
I guess I'm missing the point.
Of course, you must learn everything outside of blinking and breathing, but what all of this is about is to cover up the rabbit holes. That way you don't wander aimlessly in your learning efforts getting sidetracked on bogus info.
Great Golfers?
Personally I don't think it is by skill or externally rooted "desire." 125 super skilled college trained and prepped athletes will still get beaten by Trevinos and Hogans. A champion golfer arises due to his make up, and principally because of the great pulls inside himself; furthermore many of the greatest have known adversity and overcome issues and already faced their demons and proven to themselves the frauds they are.
Personally I don't think it is by skill or externally rooted "desire." 125 super skilled college trained and prepped athletes will still get beaten by Trevinos and Hogans. A champion golfer arises due to his make up, and principally because of the great pulls inside himself; furthermore many of the greatest have known adversity and overcome issues and already faced their demons and proven to themselves the frauds they are.
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I agree with you on bogus info and bad teachers and glad there are people out there who bust or explode other people's theorioes especially if its false information. I like most of you have a wide vision and throw out the garbage and keep the good stuff.
Trackman gives us the info great news but sooner or later you have to hit the shot on your own and hole after hole, day after day, condition after condition,body changes and feels, constant adjustments and we have to play to par or better and trackman does not have those variables. On a funny note if Tebow was on trackman for throwing a football it would be a trackman nightmare and every expert agrees he's the worst passer in modern time but at the end they win!
Trackman gives us the info great news but sooner or later you have to hit the shot on your own and hole after hole, day after day, condition after condition,body changes and feels, constant adjustments and we have to play to par or better and trackman does not have those variables. On a funny note if Tebow was on trackman for throwing a football it would be a trackman nightmare and every expert agrees he's the worst passer in modern time but at the end they win!
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