Ideas about The Release - a video by Brian Manzella (comments/reviews)

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Nice work Brian. Better value than the monster thread from whence it sprang.

I had 3 questions:

1. How do you handle shorter shots/less than full swings? Do you look for the full downswing sequence described in the video? Or do you use the same reference points - top, left arm parallel, hand low-point - and use the corresponding parts of the sequence? I'm curious how you'd handle the transition in a short pitch.

2. The upwards handpath through impact, if I understood you correctly, is the result of a full-body upwards pull. What's your reasoning for this, rather than a more rotational pivot that sends the left shoulder up and away from the ball.

3. This video seemed more explicitly aimed at folks who are too steep into impact. What's the advice for getting too shallow? Do you see that as basically a faulty transition that doesn't create or retain enough lag to left arm parallel? Or is there more to come on this?

Cheers
BS

Brian, thanks another great video....infinitely more clear than 170 pages of the thread from which it was born.

When I work on this release, the feeling I get is of an incredibly quiet body which reacts to the clubhead but doesn't try to actively do anything...it's actually kind of an unsettling feeling but to my surprise the ball seems to like it.

The other thing I notice is that when I really try to actively get the bent left wrist/arched right wrist on the follow through, as well as make sure my left wrist bone is in the proper position you demonstrate, not only does it cure my hook, but fades (and even the occasional slice) actually magically appear out of thin air! Quite a welcome sight for a chronic closed-face hooker....I feel I can really go after it without the fear of the big snapper.

The problem I encounter so far is that I am delivering too much loft, especially on the shorter irons, and tend to get too high a trajectory....any spin loft improvements from shallower attack seem to be cancelled out by losing "de-loftedness" at impact. So my follow-up questions are:

1. What adjustments need to be made to release a bit later and deliver a few degrees less loft?
2. What adjustments need to be made through the bag from Driver to wedge to time the release to each club?
 
I've been using the Never Hook Again pattern. Is it possible to use the fundamentals of the Tour Release with that way of swinging?
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
It should be noted that there is a reasons why I called this video IDEAS about the release.

I didn't want regular golfers bogged down in numbers and scientific terms.

But we will do a video one day with ALL the numbers and terms.
 
Training aids like the TourStriker still useful?

Hi,

At the beginning of the year I bought COFF and
then the TourStriker to practise the flat left wrist.
I guess that was a wasted effort :-(

I've watched both Mike Jacobs's new video and Brian's and both mention a more shallow angle of attack.

Is a training aid like the TourStriker which requires a forward lean of 2 degrees and a downward angle of 2 degrees (so 4 degrees in total) still useful with the new release or would you just top the ball even with a perfect release?

Btw do I get my money back for COFF ;-) just joking!

Cheers

ParHunter
 

jeffy

Banned
Hmmm....no footwedge or jeffy review yet.

Watched it dutifully Saturday morning, and promptly "reviewed" it for some friends. To post my thoughts here, though, I'd need to disclose much of the content. I don't think that is fair to Brian. I'll gladly share my thoughts via PM or in person at the Anti-Summit.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
I'll do it for you Jeff.

Brian & Mike Jacobs really don't understand the golf swing very well from a scientific perspective.

They have little idea about how to explain it, and almost no idea of how the body works.

But the video is somewhat entertaining.
 

jeffy

Banned
I'll do it for you Jeff.

Brian & Mike Jacobs really don't understand the golf swing very well from a scientific perspective.

They have little idea about how to explain it, and almost no idea of how the body works.

But the video is somewhat entertaining.

OK, I'll PM it to you and you are free to publish it or not.
 
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Flipper!!! :) The ball is loving this input.

Great video.

It's funny, I've been at this darn game for a long time now. I've been coaching since I was 16 and I'm now 43. Watching that video was a walk through "memory lane" in a lot of ways. You described feelings I've had and used, but could never quantify, so to me they were just "personal" feels. This summarized some things I've heard in bits and pieces from other instructors and pulled it together.

Awesome!
 
Hi,

At the beginning of the year I bought COFF and
then the TourStriker to practise the flat left wrist.
I guess that was a wasted effort :-(

I've watched both Mike Jacobs's new video and Brian's and both mention a more shallow angle of attack.

Is a training aid like the TourStriker which requires a forward lean of 2 degrees and a downward angle of 2 degrees (so 4 degrees in total) still useful with the new release or would you just top the ball even with a perfect release?

Btw do I get my money back for COFF ;-) just joking!

Cheers

ParHunter

While I'll defer to Brian, Martin, and the rest of the gang for a more definitive answer, I think the TourStriker has A LOT of merit in light of the new release ideas. What the TS does is require you to de-loft the club, and strike with at least a somewhat downward angle of attack. It does not require that you hit 10-12 degrees down, or take monster divots. This is exactly what the release promotes, just in a non "handle-dragging" manner.

Also, when you watch the TS infomercial, pay close attention to some of the model swings showing a downward angle of attack and forward lean. One of them in particular (the one right before the exagerated "flip" example) has a very full release through the ball, with his lead wrist bending a great deal almost immediately after impact. Clearly, he can still use the TS with a shallow angle of attack, and a full, free-wheeling release. Food for thought.
 
Hi,

At the beginning of the year I bought COFF and
then the TourStriker to practise the flat left wrist.
I guess that was a wasted effort :-(
I've got the Pro 7X version and it still works like a charm. Shallow attack with some deloft that ideally JUST HAPPENS.
 

footwedge

New member
Hmmm....no footwedge or jeffy review yet.


I've been busy convincing another non believer who resides on a different planet, or was that a different universe that Brian's correct. It's been a long hard fought battle but I think I'm getting the upper hand(pun intended) Of course I believe in it. Mike Finney knows ask him.
 

66er

New
Very clear precise video Brian, I havent been to the range yet but cant wait. The transition move I imagine will be difficult to get use to, but as Tiger would say "I gotta go lay down the myelin". I will report back.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Here is Jeffy's "review" and my comments to the review in bold.

Below are my thoughts as prepared Saturday with a couple of subsequent additions. I think you are being led in the wrong direction by your scientists on some important parts. I'm am curently reviewing the literature and will be prepared to discuss my concerns with you, and them, at the Anti-Summit.

Remember, I wish you the best!

Highlights:

Wants a stronger grip: assists wrist flexion and extension through impact. I like this: strong grip overwhelmingly dominates on tour.

The grip I advocated in the video, for the record, is "slightly strong."

But 1 for 1 with judge, jury, and counselor Jeffy. :p


Erect stance: the body will "react" better to the club. I agree that bent over is restrictive.

2 for 2.

Slight shift into back leg at start of the backswing. I like this too: Snead and Hogan!
3 for 3.

NO conscious weight shifting thereafter, in the backswing or downswing. What weight shifting occurs will be in response to swinging the arms and clubs (this is straight out of Manuel de la Torre/Toski/Flick). Not sure this will work as desired: sacrum needs to move at least a bit towards the target.

Key word here is "conscious." I teach EVERY golfer I teach to move the lower body plenty forward.

So we agree...sort of.

4 for 4.

Turn the back to the target: do whatever you need to accomplish this: turn the hips, close the stance, flare out the right foot. Works for me. More cowbell!
5 for 5.

HOWEVER: wants to minimize body movement; he references 60 year old Tom Watson as a good example of full shoulder turn and stable body. Hmmm, a 60 year old? Makes sense, though: lateral movement is a speed killer.

The type of golfer we are addressing moves all over the place in the swing. I'll take Watson.

5 for 6.

At the top have SLACK in both arms. Sounds sketchy. All the bombers straighten the left arm as they reach the top. Dinkers like Mediate leave the arms bent.​

"Feel like you have slack" in both arms. However 6dof3D PGA Tour data suggests ramrod straight—something many golfers think is desirable—is NOT being done.

5 of 7.

First move from the top is to move hands, club and CLUBHEAD away from the target, what he calls the "out toss": like using the right arm to toss a basketball into a hoop that is directly opposite from the target. David Glenz taught me this in the mid-‘90s and Jim Hardy advocates this for players with steep swing planes ("two planers). My concern, though, is it increases the moment of inertia and will slow rotation.​

Golfers for the most part, trying to do it, don't do it, but set in motion other desirables.

5 of 8.


This early right arm extension will create a BETTER lag angle for most people at left arm horizontal. I remember Glenz saying the same thing. Since all the bombers fold in the arms from the top, I have to believe this will lead to higher moment of inertia and less rotational speed.​

6dof3D PGA Tour data suggests that the right arm is straightening from the top faster than almost anyone thinks.

5 of 9.

Retain shoulder turn as much as possible. NO tug with the shoulders: very important. This must be for timing the arm swing, will definitely kill rotational speed.​

Most folks unwind too quickly from the top and pull their hands inside the desired downswing hand path. If you are going to be an arm dragger, you have to start somewhere.

5 of 10.

At the point where the clubhead starts to throw out, pour on power with wrists and hands to assist uncocking of wrists. Won't look like you are doing it in video, though. As far as I'm concerned, once they start to uncock, pouring on the wrist torque doesn’t hurt.​

Every study ever done suggest that there is one really good time to "push" a little and start bending the path of the hands and torquing.

6 of 10

Avoid turning the body too much toward the target at this phase of downswing. Don’t understand this “anti-rotation” emphasis. Disagree: not what the bombers do.​

If you are an "arm dragger" or a "handle dragger" you better have some arm release.

6 of 11.


Never really addresses what to do with the legs in downswing until now:

When clubhead gets below horizontal, use everything in your legs and butt to pull the club directly inwards towards the player (this is his "going normal"). The hands will reach the low point a few inches before impact and will be rising through impact. This was a huge revelation to them: allows players to have forward lean and shallow attack angle. Mike Jacobs had a 14* negative attack angle the first time he went on Trackman four years ago! Took divots the size of beaver pelts I assume. Agree: this move is visible in the bombers for sure.

All the folks who supposedly knew that low angle of attack + deloft = compression, did a terrible job of getting the word out.

7 of 11.

At this point there IS hip rotation toward the target. FINALLY!

Obviously, it will happen well before this.....geez....

7 of 12.

Through impact, the right wrist will fully straighten and left wrist will quickly begin to bend back (Glenz taught me this also; still teaches it). Uses short and crooked Luke Donald as an example. Palm of left hand will be as if placed on a wall between player and target and left arm won't rotate much. References Ralph Mann/Fred Griffin model and TaylorMade model that both show left wrist bent in follow-through. Just now noticing that "all the great players" have a bend in the left wrist post impact, not a heavily rolled left forearm like he taught for 20 years.

A lot of thinly veil shots at me and MJ in the last two comments.

The rolled forearm is the best slice cure ever.

Jeffy agrees, but took too many shots for a checkmark. But I'll take it anyway.

8 or 13.


This should produce a "free-wheeling" release without hooking.

Here is a video of a former "handle-dragging" student after being taught these concepts.

CW swing on Vimeo

Seems to me this is a nice "old fart" pattern, which may be effective for the majority of students he's gonna see now that he is high-priced. It also reverses the negative effects of the blocking hand action that he taught to achieve a "flat left wrist". But, doesn't going wide at the top INCREASE the player's moment of inertia of the upper body, arms and club, slowing rotation? Sadlowski doesn't do this. And all the bombers rotate the body early. This new pattern is more along the lines of Rocco Mediate, one of the shortest hitters on tour.​

Gee, I don't know where to start....

Pretty much what you would think would come from a noted swing scientist like Jeffy.

8 of 14.

Jeff's review: He agrees with me 57%





 

rcw

New
Dinkers

"At the top have SLACK in both arms. Sounds sketchy. All the bombers straighten the left arm as they reach the top. Dinkers like Mediate leave the arms bent."

Hmmm... You mean dinkers like Angel Cabrera and JB Holmes?
 
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