Ideas about The Release - a video by Brian Manzella (comments/reviews)

[Socalesq]

Brian,

Long-time lurker (plus I have almost all your videos, including the first anti-summit, CFF, NHA and others), first-time poster. Love your passion and insights. The new release video is an eye opener and it's already got me hitting the ball much more crisply and consistently. Many thanks to you and Michael for putting it out and keeping us up on the science. Most guys would keep on defending everything they'd taught in the past despite new science to the contrary -- the fact that you did not speaks volumes about your commitment to teaching and learning.

Anyway, a couple of things about the "new" release are very confusing to me. I'm hoping you can help.

First, if I'm supposed to try to "go normal" as the club moves into impact by using everything to pull the shaft toward me, doesn't that change my spine angle from bent forward to more straight? Put another way, how can I keep my spine angle while "yanking out the hula hoop"? Not to mention, when I go normal really hard, I feel like I wind up with a lot of weight on my right side at the finish.

Second, it seems like the vast majority of tour pros have very open (and deep) hips at impact and are off their right heel (at least with driver) with the right knee kicked in. I've tried for years (not very successfully) to get in that position at impact and I've always tried to get there by vigorously shifting and rotating left from the very start of the downswing (which I can't do if I'm going normal at the bottom). Should I not be trying to get in that position?

Thanks, Brian.

 

[bluebird]

Thank you Brian for addressing the hip sliding verses rotation sequencing. This partially answers my original question. Please accept my rephasing of my question. What differientiates a tug from the lateral slide and or rotational hip movement from a movement of the whole package? There is something that tells me if the release works with little movement then adding movement to the "whole" should be a viable addition and not a train wrecker, as it appears it is. Fore right. I see the same misunderstanding in others questions and think it would be a key unlocking the success of your explainations. Forgive me for my frankness. A huge fan. Brian I appreciate your willingness to help us.



Edited is to in

 

[Kevin Shields]

Brian,

Long-time lurker (plus I have almost all your videos, including the first anti-summit, CFF, NHA and others), first-time poster. Love your passion and insights. The new release video is an eye opener and it's already got me hitting the ball much more crisply and consistently. Many thanks to you and Michael for putting it out and keeping us up on the science. Most guys would keep on defending everything they'd taught in the past despite new science to the contrary -- the fact that you did not speaks volumes about your commitment to teaching and learning.

Anyway, a couple of things about the "new" release are very confusing to me. I'm hoping you can help.

First, if I'm supposed to try to "go normal" as the club moves into impact by using everything to pull the shaft toward me, doesn't that change my spine angle from bent forward to more straight? Put another way, how can I keep my spine angle while "yanking out the hula hoop"? Not to mention, when I go normal really hard, I feel like I wind up with a lot of weight on my right side at the finish.

Second, it seems like the vast majority of tour pros have very open (and deep) hips at impact and are off their right heel (at least with driver) with the right knee kicked in. I've tried for years (not very successfully) to get in that position at impact and I've always tried to get there by vigorously shifting and rotating left from the very start of the downswing (which I can't do if I'm going normal at the bottom). Should I not be trying to get in that position?

Thanks, Brian.

Id wait for Brian's answer as well but no one keeps their forward bend during impact. Always coming out of it during impact.

Also, that impact position you spoke of is something that should be allowed to happen, not forced. Asking for a lot of trouble if you try to go from the top to that wide open, deep hips impact position. Also, not every top player looks that way. Hope this helps.

 

[GeoffDickson]

You can then see how little you CAN move and reach the ball (by going ahead and pivoting only as much as you need to reach impact).

Does 'not pivoting like crazy' mean that the hips are less open at impact?

 

[gmbtempe]

Does 'not pivoting like crazy' mean that the hips are less open at impact?

Keeping your shoulders closed or square at impact is a great way to get the left wrist bent right after impact.............trust me I am an expert.

 

[Bigwill]

Does 'not pivoting like crazy' mean that the hips are less open at impact?

IMO, from what I've seen, it just depends. For some people, that could be exactly what it means. For others who aren't improperly utilizing their pivot, maybe not so much.

I think flexibility, physique and the direction that you're trying to swing in could have a lot to do with how open your hips can/should be at impact. Some people are going to be wide open just because they're fairly limber and lean, some others because their hitting something closer to a fade. I realized I had to stop trying to have my hips look like young Tiger's or Hank Kuehne's at impact when I figured out that doing so just didn't allow my club to behave at the bottom of the swing the way I wanted it to. For what my hands and arms like to do, that open is too open.

Open enough is going to be different for different folks I think...

 

[magicmarker]

I think the hips could be open the same amount at impact but they might not have been there waiting for everything else to catch up for quite as long.

 

[66er]

Hi guys, I just have a brief question about hand on the wall, I focused on it today at the range and dropkick bladed everything with wedges, I was wondering if you guys who know what you are talking about could help if possible. I realise there is more to the new release than this and Ive had have some success with the release, but I was wondering perhaps if any of your students have had a little trouble with hand on the wall is there a reoccuring problem. Unstood if this is this is too little info to go by, thank for reading.

 

[Socalesq]

Kevin, are you saying the teaching mantra about keeping your spine angle is wrong? And as far as some top players not having the hips open at impact, could you name names? Gotta be a very small minority from what I've seen.

 

[mjstrong]

I think: from the top to impact: the upper body and pelvis both turn, tilt, and lose bend (a little).

EDIT: Which of those things you focus your "intent" could be a completely different question.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Kevin, are you saying the teaching mantra about keeping your spine angle is wrong? And as far as some top players not having the hips open at impact, could you name names? Gotta be a very small minority from what I've seen.

I didn't say they weren't open....just not every player is way open. And yes, keeping your spine angle is nonsense, top players come out of forward bend thru impact.

 

[Brian Manzella]

...if I'm supposed to try to "go normal" as the club moves into impact by using everything to pull the shaft toward me, doesn't that change my spine angle from bent forward to more straight?

From the spot where you have the most forward bend—when you are apply torque about the coupling point—you are MASSIVELY losing this forward bend to and through impact. You replace it with a little slide, a pretty decent amount of right side bend, and some hip thrust, and rotation.

...it seems like the vast majority of tour pros have very open (and deep) hips at impact and are off their right heel (at least with driver) with the right knee kicked in. I've tried for years (not very successfully) to get in that position at impact and I've always tried to get there by vigorously shifting and rotating left from the very start of the downswing (which I can't do if I'm going normal at the bottom). Should I not be trying to get in that position?

Tour players and good players everywhere have there hips open at impact. The range is about 25-55°.

To answer your question, you should be making the move I just stated—a little slide, a pretty decent amount of right side bend, and some hip thrust, and rotation—just remember that should be LESS X-factor at impact then there was halfway down.

What differientiates a tug from the lateral slide and or rotational hip movement from a movement of the whole package? There is something that tells me if the release works with little movement then adding movement to the "whole" should be a viable addition and not a train wrecker, as it appears it is.

Well....the tug is occurring in the upper body....

Separate from lateral slide, the tug is more of an early rortation of the upper body, yanking on the lead arm.

Does 'not pivoting like crazy' mean that the hips are less open at impact?

Less open to the shoulders then they were halfway down....see above.

"There is pivoting, and pivoting like crazy." —Steve Greffen

Keeping your shoulders closed or square at impact is a great way to get the left wrist bent right after impact.............trust me I am an expert.

YES!!!

The left wrist bends at some point past impact, in 95%+ of all good players since the fireman were putting on ice.

It should obviously never occur at impact, except for a trouble shot with some high requirement, but it should bend at some point unless you are on a strict NSA diet.

This is so important, I will bold it:

At some point in the swing—toward impact—the hips are more open than the shoulders, the left arm is across the the chest, the left arm is rotated open, and the left wrist is flat.

At some point in the swing—after impact—the hips are more closed than the shoulders, the right arm is across the the chest, the left arm is rotated closed, and the left wrist is bent.

All that matters is where.

Of course that is very pattern and subject dependent. It also changes somewhat through the set.

TrackMan numbers as far as dynamic loft and angle of attack should still be somewhat similar.

Open enough is going to be different for different folks I think...

Yup.

I think the hips could be open the same amount at impact but they might not have been there waiting for everything else to catch up for quite as long.

Yup.

Hi guys, I just have a brief question about hand on the wall, I focused on it today at the range and dropkick bladed everything with wedges, I was wondering if you guys who know what you are talking about could help if possible. I realise there is more to the new release than this and Ive had have some success with the release, but I was wondering perhaps if any of your students have had a little trouble with hand on the wall is there a reoccuring problem. Unstood if this is this is too little info to go by, thank for reading.

What length wedge shot?

Kevin, are you saying the teaching mantra about keeping your spine angle is wrong? And as far as some top players not having the hips open at impact, could you name names? Gotta be a very small minority from what I've seen.

See above.

I didn't say they weren't open....just not every player is way open. And yes, keeping your spine angle is nonsense, top players come out of forward bend thru impact.

Yes sireee....

 

[gmbtempe]

The left wrist bends at some point past impact, in 95%+ of all good players since the fireman were putting on ice.

It should obviously never occur at impact, except for a trouble shot with some high requirement, but it should bend at some point unless you are on a strict NSA diet.

This is so important, I will bold it:

At some point in the swing—toward impact—the hips are more open than the shoulders, the left arm is across the the chest, the left arm is rotated open, and the left wrist is flat.

At some point in the swing—after impact—the hips are more closed than the shoulders, the right arm is across the the chest, the left arm is rotated closed, and the left wrist is bent.

All that matters is where.

Of course that is very pattern and subject dependent. It also changes somewhat through the set.

I want my left wrist to stay flat to this point, after if it bends I am fine with it.

 

[66er]

60 yards to 80 yards Brian, its just a little fustrating because Ive struck some long iron shots with a ball flight so good they keep me up at night but I cant work out what I did differently right now.

 

[bluebird]

Thanks Brian
This thread has been extremely helpful to me. Thanks again for you generousity.

John

 

[Socalesq]

Thanks, Brian. I'm not sure what you mean about the left arm being "open" around impact and "closed" sometime after. Would you please clarify?

Also, my right hand and elbow from the top have always dropped straight down and gotten stuck behind me. Video of me doing the "release" swing shows much less of that -- the elbow isn't exactly in front of my right hip, but it's a lot closer to being unstuck than it's ever been. I can't figure out why the anti-tug start down has helped that so much (any thoughts?), but I'm very happy about it.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I want my left wrist to stay flat to this point, after if it bends I am fine with it.

Do you understand what I said....????

David is OPEN OPEN at impact, he lines up later.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Because tugging can can you stuck.

Also, the left arm open and closed......from face on view halfway down you could see the back of the left hand (open), and the reverse halfway through (closed)

 

[Socalesq]

Kevin,

Thanks for your replies. I'm having trouble getting off my right side or get my hips open much at all when I try to "go normal", especially with the driver. At impact, and long past impact, I'm still really flat-footed. I've attached a link to my swing so you can see what I mean.

What am I doing wrong? Very happy for anyone else to weigh in, as well. I'm pretty straight, but my swing seems to lack that dynamic speed I've been searching for.

 

[Dariusz J.]

What am I doing wrong? Very happy for anyone else to weigh in, as well. I'm pretty straight, but my swing seems to lack that dynamic speed I've been searching for.

You swing with your arms only, not with your body and then arms (in this order).

Cheers