Impact illustration..

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I have made an illustration of impact alignments as close as I can to those in 2-C. If you spot anything out of sorts with this illustration, please feel free to speak up. Also, if you would like any other alignments illustrated on this picture, or any others.. let me know. I'm just trying to make sure I understand the way Homer was trying to explain these concepts.

impact-straight.jpg
 

rwh

New
Ringer,

Very nice. One change I would recommend is to indicate that ball direction is 90 degrees to the Clubface at Separation.

(What program do you use to create the illustration?)
 

EdZ

New
In Homer's view of the flail, he indicates that a "golfer's flail" does not represent a straight in line condition, that there is a slight bent condition (bent right wrist) - it is that of a standard flail, that is illustrated here (depending on your definition of the 'swing radius')

An excellent picture Ringer. Just that visual sums up so much.

See that same visual on an inclined plane and you are well on your way
 

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

In Homer's view of the flail, he indicates that a "golfer's flail" does not represent a straight in line condition, that there is a slight bent condition (bent right wrist)...

[Bold by Holenone/Yoda.]

This statement is incorrect on two fronts.

First, Homer's view of the Flail is explained clearly in 2-K and illustrated in Sketch 2-K #1, #2 and #3. Essentially, the Flail can be in one of three phases: Acceleration, Momentum and Deceleration. The Flail is in an Out-of-Line condition only in its Acceleration and Deceleration Phases. It does, in fact, enjoy a Straight Line condition in the Momentum Phase.

Second, the Flail consists of the Primary Lever Assembly (the Left Arm and Club). This is the Left Arm Flying Wedge. Hence, the Out-of-Line condition of the Flail refers solely to the Left Wrist (in its Cocked, Bent or Rolled conditions). At no time does the Bent Right Wrist form part of the Flail (whether In-Line or Out-of-Line). Instead, it is part of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge. As such, it supports the Left Arm Wedge (for both Swingers and Hitters) and may also supply its Direct Drive (Hitters only).
 

EdZ

New
Why, where and how does Homer distinguish between a 'standard' flail and a 'golfers flail? What is the difference in a 'golfer's flail vs a standard flail?

Do you agree that this picture, on an inclined plane, IS the golf swing in its most basic geometry?
 
Would not the red,blue and green lines all converge at seperation???
Now if you could only make the drawing 3 dimensional you could see the low point plane.
But why bother since it is in the little yellow book.
 

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Why, where and how does Homer distinguish between a 'standard' flail and a 'golfers flail? What is the difference in a 'golfer's flail vs a standard flail?

Do you agree that this picture, on an inclined plane, IS the golf swing in its most basic geometry?

1. Homer explains the operation of both the 'common' Flail and the Golfer's Flail in 2-K. The difference between the two is the connection of the Swingle with the Handle, i.e., the thong versus the hinge pin.

2. Ringer's illustration is very creative and almost correct, but not quite. The Impact Point Plane Line has been misidentified as the Target Line. Instead, there also should be a Separation Point Plane Line. It is this Separation Point Plane Line that lies atop the Target Line, not the Impact Point Plane Line. Thus, the Target Line and the Ball's Line of Flight will lie in the same Vertical Plane.

One final note: As drawn, the Separation Point Plane Line and the Low Point Plane Line combine as one. Usually, however, the Ball is located well behind Low Point (Up Plane), and that will not be the case. Therefore, unless the Ball is positioned at Low Point, or on a Tee past Low Point, the Separation Point Plane Line will always be encountered prior to the Low Point Plane Line.
 

EdZ

New
Why a 'thong' vs a hinge pin?

Why have a 'fixed' thong?

Why modify the physics view of a flail?
 

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Why a 'thong' vs a hinge pin?

Why have a 'fixed' thong?

Why modify the physics view of a flail?

Your three questions are clearly to promote your own not-so-hidden agenda. Nevertheless, I will respond to each with the same answer: Read 2-K. As you well know, the answers are all there.

As usual, you are never genuinely interested in my responses -- you rarely comment on their content -- instead, you are interested only in your own questions (usually self-serving) and your own answers...all buttressed by your own opinion. As a consequence, I continue to answer them only as I see a benefit to the other readers of this site.

Sad, but true.
 
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Why a 'thong' vs a hinge pin?

Why have a 'fixed' thong?

Why modify the physics view of a flail?

With a hinge pin, it can only be "cocked" and/or "rotated" and can not pass the "handle" while moving to full extension, ensuring a Flat Left Wrist.
 

EdZ

New
Lynn - stop assuming. I am asking a question for no reason other than I HAVE A QUESTION THAT HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERED.

Look, you think Homer had it 100% correct. I don't. I'm not convinced. I'd LOVE to be convinced. Convince me he did by answering questions, not by avoiding things that don't FIT.

Sad but true - Homer took some liberties by ASSUMING a few important things.


So, if you care at all about TRUTH, can you answer the question?

Why did Homer use a 'thong' vs. a standard flail? Why modify the physics view of a flail?

I don't care if I'm right, I care what the truth is. I am a seeker of truth.

The LAWS of physics, geometry and anatomy apply, regardless of what you or I think about them and regardless of how you or I, or Homer DESCRIBES them.
 

EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by drewitgolf

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Why a 'thong' vs a hinge pin?

Why have a 'fixed' thong?

Why modify the physics view of a flail?

With a hinge pin, it can only be "cocked" and/or "rotated" and can not pass the "handle" while moving to full extension, ensuring a Flat Left Wrist.

Depends on the hinge pin and the location of the flail. Our wrist joint is a natural hinge pin - bend/arch, in which you can, according to the laws of a properly positioned standard flail physics view - keep a flat left wrist through to both arms straight AND limit rotation, using it only to help you ensure lag is present. A 'gentle' roll. The hitter's motion.
 

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

quote:Originally posted by drewitgolf

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Why a 'thong' vs a hinge pin?

Why have a 'fixed' thong?

Why modify the physics view of a flail?

With a hinge pin, it can only be "cocked" and/or "rotated" and can not pass the "handle" while moving to full extension, ensuring a Flat Left Wrist.

Depends on the hinge pin and the location of the flail. Our wrist joint is a natural hinge pin - bend/arch, in which you can, according to the laws of a properly positioned standard flail physics view - keep a flat left wrist through to both arms straight AND limit rotation, using it only to help you ensure lag is present. A 'gentle' roll. The hitter's motion.

I rest my case.
 
Edz- don't look behind you, the men in white coats are circling you. I can wait to start my day with a great laugh from your posts.
 
Hey Ed -

If you don't agree with the standard, the burden of proof is on you to disprove it. It's not Holenone's responsibility to prove something you have not disproved.

It's getting really aggravating to watch you steer every discussion to your pet theories which you never prove. Ever.

Either prove something or stop busting balls, for chrissakes.

You can't prove something by asking Holenone questions.
 

EdZ

New
The standard is PHYSICS.

Homer CHANGED the accepted view of PHYSICS - the 'golfers fail vs the standard flail'

I am saying that the standard flail applies.

Prove otherwise. The burden of proof is on you. The laws apply, but Homer didn't apply them in his description. He changed HIS view and his descriptions to 'try' to fit what the laws of physics REQUIRE, because he got the LOCATION wrong.
 

EdZ

New
It is also sad that Lynn Blake is still avoiding the questions posed by EdZ. The 'Master' can not provide an answer.

And the loyal pups attack with 6th grade discourse.

A shame.
 
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