Impact illustration..

[Ringer]

Holenone - Have a question for you.

Where precisely is the "vertical center line"? 2-E refers to the LOC being in line with the center line to create directly vertical spin, but anything left or right would create a tilting of the backspin.

So from what I gather, the ball then rebouds directly proportional to the clubface, then doubly acts to move in that direction based upon the venturi effect with time and spin. Is that correct?

 

[Mathew]

quote:Matthew, put the stone down, you too live in a glass house. plz

It could be worse - I could live in a trailer park with you as my neighbour.

 

[njmp2]

quote:Originally posted by Mathew

quote:Matthew, put the stone down, you too live in a glass house. plz

It could be worse - I could live in a trailer park with you as my neighbour.

Matthew, well before you confided in us about being improperly medicated for so long and apologized to the forum for your past behavior and started fresh with a new name change from the old one which got you tossed off many forums for boorish behavior, I defended your right to post as you please- even at while I was attacked for defending you. Whats the matter Matthew, your government holding back your prozac?

My post was just to remind you of your shady past and maybe, just maybe you shouldn't make accusations toward others.

You could never be my neighbor, you couldn't get past the gate. But if you like -- come visit, my friends will get a big laugh.

 

[rwh]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Can you clarify the orientation of the hinge pin you are discussing? Parallel to the arm/club or perpendicular? Why not use the bend/arch of the wrists to your advantage, noting that breakdown can not happen until after separation?

1. The Golfers Flail hinge pin is mounted perpendicular to a vertical plane, thereby permitting only vertical movement of the wrist. A real world example of such a hinge pin would be the mounting for the attic door in the ceiling of your garage. The door can only swing up and down in a vertical plane, but cannot swing side to side.

2. The Golfing Machine has the Head as the center of the pivot and the Left Shoulder as the center of the swing. I know that you don't agree with this. Would you please identify the Pivot Center and Swing Center of the EdZ model and, also, where the Levers and their subparts (fulcrum, weight, force) are located.

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

holenone - by 'closing only' does that mean 'toe rotation around the shaft'?

Actually, it means Shaft rotation around the Sweet Spot (2-F).

I would consider 'toe rotation around the shaft' to equate with a open to closed clubface and a shaft rotation around the sweet spot to be a 'closed to open' clubface (well ideally square to the arc from a geometry standpoint)

Is that what you mean by shaft rotates around the sweet spot, in a nutshell - twistaway?

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by rwh

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Can you clarify the orientation of the hinge pin you are discussing? Parallel to the arm/club or perpendicular? Why not use the bend/arch of the wrists to your advantage, noting that breakdown can not happen until after separation?

1. The Golfers Flail hinge pin is mounted perpendicular to a vertical plane, thereby permitting only vertical movement of the wrist. A real world example of such a hinge pin would be the mounting for the attic door in the ceiling of your garage. The door can only swing up and down in a vertical plane, but cannot swing side to side.

2. I understand that the EdZ model does not use the Left Shoulder as the Fulcrum of the swing. Could you please explain the lever system in the EdZ model, to include the location of all levers and the location of the the fulcrum, force and weight for each.

See the model in "Search for a Perfect Swing". A much more straight forward text and an excellent compliment to learning TGM (and vice versa). I don't agree with all of their approach, but I do agree with their model.

Regardless of where you locate that in the body, can we all agree that is the most 'basic' model of the swing?

Published in 1968 (before TGM)

 

[rwh]

quote:Originally posted by EdZSee the model in "Search for a Perfect Swing". A much more straight forward text and an excellent compliment to learning TGM (and vice versa). I don't agree with all of their approach, but I do agree with their model.

Regardless of where you locate that in the body, can we all agree that is the most 'basic' model of the swing?

Published in 1968 (before TGM)

What is the model in SFAPS?

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by Ringer

Holenone - Have a question for you.

Where precisely is the "vertical center line"? 2-E refers to the LOC being in line with the center line to create directly vertical spin, but anything left or right would create a tilting of the backspin.

See the Vertical Center Line A-B in Sketch 2-B (page 14). An Impact (as indicated) on that line will produce a Straight Shot. An Impact to either side of that Vertical Center Line will result in a sidewise 'push' and thus produce either a Hook (if the push is to the left) or a Slice (if the push is to the right).

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

holenone - by 'closing only' does that mean 'toe rotation around the shaft'?

Actually, it means Shaft rotation around the Sweet Spot (2-F).

I would consider 'toe rotation around the shaft' to equate with a open to closed clubface and a shaft rotation around the sweet spot to be a 'closed to open' clubface...

The Toe does not rotate around the Shaft. Instead, both the Toe (and the Heel, for that matter) and the Clubshaft rotate around the Sweetspot. In both directions, i.e., the Turn ('Open' to the right) and the Roll ('Closed' to the Left).

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ
See the model in "Search for a Perfect Swing". A much more straight forward text and an excellent compliment to learning TGM (and vice versa). I don't agree with all of their approach, but I do agree with their model.

Published in 1968 (before TGM)

For the record, 1968 would be the year before TGM's 1969 publication. Also for the record, Search For The Perfect Swing is chock full of errors -- not to mention omissions -- fifty of which Homer Kelley noted and sent to Gary Wiren, then head of instruction for the PGA, at his request.

 

[EdZ]

Thanks Lynn. I don't know that I follow how both can do so, but that does clear up the open/closed vs closed/open question.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Thanks Lynn. I don't know that I follow how both can do so, but that does clear up the open/closed vs closed/open question.

There should be no confusion: Both the Toe and Shaft rotate around the Sweetspot clockwise on the Backstroke and counterclockwise on the Downstroke.

 

[EdZ]

So if you were to setup in golf posture holding a can of soda (a Moe type grip) and swung it back and through, the 'center' of that can would be similar to the sweet spot (if a laser were beeming out of it) and the 'right side' of the can (at address) would be similar to the clubface - toe/heel. This relative positioning due to the club's design, the handle end being forward/offset.

does that make sense/describe it? You are turning the outside rim of the can around the center of the can, back and through.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

So if you were to setup in golf posture holding a can of soda (a Moe type grip) and swung it back and through, the 'center' of that can would be similar to the sweet spot (if a laser were beeming out of it) and the 'right side' of the can (at address) would be similar to the clubface - toe/heel. This relative positioning due to the club's design, the handle end being forward/offset.

does that make sense/describe it? You are turning the outside rim of the can around the center of the can, back and through.

The Sweetspot remains on its plane throughout the Stroke. It may or may not be on the Plane you want, but the Plane of the Sweetspot is the Plane you are on! The Clubface -- including the Heel or the Toe or the rim of a Coca-Cola can or whatever -- rotates around that orbiting Sweetspot.

In other words (assuming a 10-2-B Grip -- Left and Right Wrists Vertical to the ground at Impact), when the Left Palm is On Plane in the Backstroke, the entire Clubface (Heel to Toe) is also On Plane. Similarly, in the Finish Swivel, when the back of the Flat Left Wrist is On Plane, the entire Clubface is also On Plane. Elsewhere during the Stroke, the Sweetspot is always On Plane. But...

The Heel and Toe are not.

 

[Ringer]

Holenone.. to see the sweetspot plane, the following idea popped into my head and I tried it.. seemed to show it pretty well.. I'm curious if you would recommend it?

Grab your 6 iron and a piece of string with some weight to it. Hold both the club by the grip cap and the string in your index and thumb. Notice where the string passed by the clubface is where the "sweet spot" on the clubface is. The string represents the "sweetspot plane" for the club.

 

[EdZ]

So the plane of the sweetspot is the turned shoulder plane (in a zero shift, non compensated stroke)? Do any of the PP's travel on this plane during the entire motion?

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by Ringer

Holenone.. to see the sweetspot plane, the following idea popped into my head and I tried it.. seemed to show it pretty well.. I'm curious if you would recommend it?

Grab your 6 iron and a piece of string with some weight to it. Hold both the club by the grip cap and the string in your index and thumb. Notice where the string passed by the clubface is where the "sweet spot" on the clubface is. The string represents the "sweetspot plane" for the club.

Yoda has a thin metal rod that is used like the string you mentioned. We used it all the time at the last workshop to see and feel the sweet stop line. It forms a nice "wedge" too, doesn't it.

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

So the plane of the sweetspot is the turned shoulder plane (in a zero shift, non compensated stroke)? Do any of the PP's travel on this plane during the entire motion?

The illusion is the shaft. Everything is on the sweet spot plane, especially PP#1 and 3. It is not the shaft that is swung but the sweet spot plane line.

 

[EdZ]

How can PP1 and PP3 stay on the plane during the entire motion? Doesn't the 90 deg rotation on the backswing rotate PP3 around PP1, and onto the plane? I can see how this would be 'nearly' true for a hitter, but how so for a swinger?

The sweet spot plane line = the line of force I have been talking about BTW

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by Ringer

Holenone.. to see the sweetspot plane, the following idea popped into my head and I tried it.. seemed to show it pretty well.. I'm curious if you would recommend it?

Grab your 6 iron and a piece of string with some weight to it. Hold both the club by the grip cap and the string in your index and thumb. Notice where the string passed by the clubface is where the "sweet spot" on the clubface is. The string represents the "sweetspot plane" for the club.

This is the 'plumb bob' idea as expressed in The Glossary under the definition of 'Sweet Spot.' It makes the invisible -- the Sweet Spot Plane -- visible.