Iron Byron-Lag Vs No Lag

[Bronco Billy]

Hi There

It is My Understanding that Iron Byron has s Free Hinge which Attaches the Golf Club to Iron's Arm....... Suppose Iron Byron is Calibrated for a 100 mph Impact Velocity with the Club 90 Degrees to the Arm to Simulate Lag,,,,,, Now the Free Hinge is Locked in a Straight Arm Position to Simulate No Lag.... Iron is Fired with the Same Calibrations as before..... The Question is- What is the Impact Velocity in the No Lag Simulation?

Cheers

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

As far as i understand all this science stuff (not too bright in that subject ) is that the ball only knows how fast the clubhead is going when it hit is.

So even if you have a early releasing casting type swing that generates 110mph versus someone who has a lot of "angle" and swings it 110mph the ball will go the same distance assuming identical launch conditions.

 

[Bronco Billy]

As far as i understand all this science stuff (not too bright in that subject ) is that the ball only knows how fast the clubhead is going when it hit is.

So even if you have a early releasing casting type swing that generates 110mph versus someone who has a lot of "angle" and swings it 110mph the ball will go the same distance assuming identical launch conditions.

Hi There

So I guess if What You Say is True There is No Reason to set the Golf Club 90 Degrees to one's Arm in the BackSwing...... Since as I Read your Response their is no Gain in Lagging the Club...... Straight Arm Swings produces the Same Results????????????? Check the Premise Iron Byron is Calibrated the same for Straight arm Vs Lag....... If what you say is True This is Gonna make the Golf Swing a Hell of a Lot Easier......

Cheers

 

[dbl]

Hi There

It is My Understanding that Iron Byron has s Free Hinge which Attaches the Golf Club to Iron's Arm
Cheers

I do not think there is free hinge there - it is constratined in some way. Ping's Pingman has a free hinge, if I have been informed correctly.

 

[blehnhard]

I don't believe that Jim is putting forth the point that you can create the same speed lag or no lag. All he is saying is that 110 mph is 110 mph no matter how you get there.

Releasing the angle between the clubshaft at the left arm allows us humans to create more speed than if we swung with just a straight left arm /clubshaft relationship.

The secret for us humans is in the timing of the release.

Bruce

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Hi There

So I guess if What You Say is True There is No Reason to set the Golf Club 90 Degrees to one's Arm in the BackSwing...... Since as I Read your Response their is no Gain in Lagging the Club...... Straight Arm Swings produces the Same Results????????????? Check the Premise Iron Byron is Calibrated the same for Straight arm Vs Lag....... If what you say is True This is Gonna make the Golf Swing a Hell of a Lot Easier......

Cheers

There was a unbelievable junior that i got to witness hit balls in Texas while visiting a friend. He had a backswing that was about as short as Zach Johnson's BUT with ZERO wrist hinge! Strangest thing i've ever see but could he whack it. However during the transition wrist cock was added and he did have lag.

I would venture to say that if you could play a "straight arm'd stiff arm'd" swing that produces the same amount of speed as one that bends, the ball will go the same distance assuming identicial launch conditions. My assumption is a large one and is really only theorectically in my opinion because most early releasers of the club tend to hit the ball very steeply with an open face and thus the ball will go shorter because of the excess spin and launch.

But even Brian said his star junior pupil, i forget her name, hits the ball FURTHER with her circle delivery type path versus a very late snapping one. She is simply able to generate more speed doing the former verse the latter.

 

[Bronco Billy]

I don't believe that Jim is putting forth the point that you can create the same speed lag or no lag. All he is saying is that 110 mph is 110 mph no matter how you get there.

Releasing the angle between the clubshaft at the left arm allows us humans to create more speed than if we swung with just a straight left arm /clubshaft relationship.

The secret for us humans is in the timing of the release.

Bruce

Hi There

That's Fine and Maybe True But Neither One of You Answered the Question.... Wouldn't You Like to Know What the Actual Gain in Velocity is Straight Arm Vs Lag? I Sure as Hell Would...

Cheers

 

[Bronco Billy]

I would venture to say that if you could play a "straight arm'd stiff arm'd" swing that produces the same amount of speed as one that bends, the ball will go the same distance assuming identicial launch conditions. latter.

Hi There

I AGREE...... But what If You Could Get the Straight Armed Kid to Hit the Ball with Lag and the SAME Force as His Straight Armed Swing Then How Much Club Head Velocity Would He Gain?

Cheers

 

[Bronco Billy]

I do not think there is free hinge there - it is constratined in some way. Ping's Pingman has a free hinge, if I have been informed correctly.

Hi There

They Definitly Both are Free Hinges... I Have the Dvd Swing Machine.... The First Twenty Minutes is an Interview with One of the Engineers who Designed the Original Iron Byron.... The Whole DVD is Based on Iron Byron's Free Hinge Swing.....

Cheers

 

[Bronco Billy]

But even Brian said his star junior pupil, i forget her name, hits the ball FURTHER with her circle delivery type path versus a very late snapping one. She is simply able to generate more speed doing the former verse the latter.

Hi Jim

This is Very Interesting to Me..... Would You Call This a Sweep Release? Is this Not the Same Release as Big Jack and Tom Watson Have? Mandrin Seemed to Imply this Release is a ByProduct of Twist Away/BackSwing Counter Rotation...... I Believe the Sweep Release is a Far Superior Release Compared to the Snap Release........ Maybe Brian Should Define Twist Away as a Method and Not a Fix.......

Cheers

 

[Brian Manzella]

If you Aunt had.....

...what If You Could Get the Straight Armed Kid to Hit the Ball with Lag and the SAME Force as His Straight Armed Swing Then How Much Club Head Velocity Would He Gain?

Not a Math Guy, but, here goes...

If the HAND SPEED could remain the same, a swing that had a snap release would hit it MUCH farther than with a SWEEP release.

Case in point: Mike Finney.....

Ah...but, Mike Finney has NO PROBLEM WITH HAND SPEED. He can throw a golf ball well over 100 yards in the air!

Lindsey has a very strong BODY, and decently strong arms, but little wrist/hand speed. (Never been the pitcher type, but is a high-level athlete. More of a quick point guard).

So Mike's hand speed doesn't slow down with the snap release. He HAD a sweep release and I taught him more of a snap.

Am I making any sense at all....???

I hit it futher with a RANDOM release. I can throw football as far as Mike, but a golf ball goes half his distance....

Get it?

The football slows Mike's hand speed down.

....

Calling Mandrin...

 

[golfbulldog]

Hi There

I AGREE...... But what If You Could Get the Straight Armed Kid to Hit the Ball with Lag and the SAME Force as His Straight Armed Swing Then How Much Club Head Velocity Would He Gain?

Cheers

If this kid used the same pivot force but did not add some accumulator lag (ie. left wrist cock ) on the downswing... then the kid could not achieve the same hand speed on the downswing. So in the real world you need some accumulator lag on the downswing to achieve a reasonable hand speed for a given amount of pivot power. Something to do with MOI of the arms and clubhead, skaters going faster with their arms close to body etc... at least that is what it seems to me... wait for Mandrin to sort me out on this one!!!

If you are talking lag pressure... then there seems to no power/ballspeed benefit from this...no resistance to impact deceleration ( see the recent 20+pages of stuff on this!!) .... but maintaining lag pressure does mean that the right wrist does not straighten too soon and hence the clubface is not closed at impact due to flipping...

 

[Bronco Billy]

If this kid used the same pivot force but did not add some accumulator lag (ie. left wrist cock ) on the downswing... then the kid could not achieve the same hand speed on the downswing. So in the real world you need some accumulator lag on the downswing to achieve a reasonable hand speed for a given amount of pivot power. Something to do with MOI of the arms and clubhead, skaters going faster with their arms close to body etc... at least that is what it seems to me... wait for Mandrin to sort me out on this one!!!

If you are talking lag pressure... then there seems to no power/ballspeed benefit from this...no resistance to impact deceleration ( see the recent 20+pages of stuff on this!!) .... but maintaining lag pressure does mean that the right wrist does not straighten too soon and hence the clubface is not closed at impact due to flipping...

Hi There BullDog

You Should Have Waited for Mandrin..... You are 500 Today in Forums.... Not Bad for BaseBall...... Do You Actually Think Iron Byron will Hit the Golf Ball Stiff Armed as Far as He/She Hits it With Lag....... Homer's(Both of Them) Gonna Roll Over in His Grave......

Cheers

 

[lia41985]

Brian, what's the difference between random release and sequenced release?

 

[golfbulldog]

Hi There BullDog

You Should Have Waited for Mandrin..... You are 500 Today in Forums.... Not Bad for BaseBall...... Do You Actually Think Iron Byron will Hit the Golf Ball Stiff Armed as Far as He/She Hits it With Lag....... Homer's(Both of Them) Gonna Roll Over in His Grave......

Cheers

If the rotary engine ( or whatever...?) that powers Iron Bryon can achieve the same clubhead speed with a "stiff arm" and a free hinge left wrist/lag swing ... then the ball goes the same distance. But the engine that powers the machine will be doing more work with the stiff arm swinging robot.

All the physics guys just say that clubhead speed at impact is the only thing that matters.

i think Homer did all his metaphorical movement last year when Mandrin drilled this into the forum ... converted Brian to see it that way. No such thing as increased effective mass...etc.

 

[puttmad]

Hi There

That's Fine and Maybe True But Neither One of You Answered the Question.... Wouldn't You Like to Know What the Actual Gain in Velocity is Straight Arm Vs Lag? I Sure as Hell Would...

Cheers

Why not try it out with a swing speed radar?
Lock your arms and swing them as fast as you can....I think you'll find arm speed only is a relatively small portion of the resultant clubhead speed that includes lag...

 

[Bronco Billy]

Why not try it out with a swing speed radar?
Lock your arms and swing them as fast as you can....I think you'll find arm speed only is a relatively small portion of the resultant clubhead speed that includes lag...

Hi There

Don't We Agree???? I Just want to Know a Delta Velocity between Arm Velocity and ClubHead Velocity with Lag.......

Cheers

 

[golfbulldog]

Hi Jim

This is Very Interesting to Me..... Would You Call This a Sweep Release? Is this Not the Same Release as Big Jack and Tom Watson Have? Mandrin Seemed to Imply this Release is a ByProduct of Twist Away/BackSwing Counter Rotation...... I Believe the Sweep Release is a Far Superior Release Compared to the Snap Release........ Maybe Brian Should Define Twist Away as a Method and Not a Fix.......

Cheers

Hi Billy - why do you think that sweep is far superior release... easier to accomplish - seems to be for most people... any other reason??

Gracias

 

[Bronco Billy]

If the rotary engine ( or whatever...?) that powers Iron Bryon can achieve the same clubhead speed with a "stiff arm" and a free hinge left wrist/lag swing ... then the ball goes the same distance. But the engine that powers the machine will be doing more work with the stiff arm swinging robot.

All the physics guys just say that clubhead speed at impact is the only thing that matters.

i think Homer did all his metaphorical movement last year when Mandrin drilled this into the forum ... converted Brian to see it that way. No such thing as increased effective mass...etc.

Hey Dude

Read the Friggen Premise the Setting on Iron Byron are the Same for Stiff vs Lag.... Therefore the Iron Byron arm speed is the Same for Both Cases.... You are changing Your Story in Midstream which seems to be a Virtue around Here......

Cheers

 

[Bronco Billy]

Hi Billy - why do you think that sweep is far superior release... easier to accomplish - seems to be for most people... any other reason??

Gracias

Hi There

First of All My(Shaugers) Definition of Sweep Release is not a Stiff arm Swing(No Release).... I Don't Know what the TGM definition is..... I started a Thread Asking the Difference Between Sweep and Snap.... Zero response.... I Switched to a Counter Rotating BackSwing which Implies a Sweep Release.... Best Dam Thing I ever Did in Golf...... I can't prove anything because the Double Pendulum Mathematical Model does Not Apply to Sweep Release in My Opinion............

Cheers