Iron Byron-Lag Vs No Lag

[Brian Manzella]

Ah....no.

...Shouldn't Modern Golf Instruction be Based on the Most Efficient Release whenever Possible.....(?)

No.

Nope.

Noskis.

The best release for THAT golfer.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Billy - you must have been on enough forums to know that internet is pretty inefficient means of communication and is prone to misunderstanding.... 20 pages of stuff from a relatively straight forward question etc... so just to clear things up:


"same calibrations as before" - does that mean that the engine/rotor does exactly the same as it did to achieve the 100mph clubhead speed and you want to know the amount by which the the stiff arm swing is slowed ( by moving the mass away from the centre)... that is the way it read to me originally.

Now you say that the "Iron Byron arm speed is the Same for Both Cases"... but that would mean different settings ( at least as far as the engine were concerned)...no?

Now if you are saying that the motor applies whatever force is required to move the stiff arms at the same speed as the lagging swing ( programmed to achieve 100mph impact collision speed)... then you are asking an unusual question it seems.... the stiff armed swing has no release and there is no slowing down of the arms ( as long as the engine is set to do whatever it takes to achieve the speed you desire).... the lagging release does have a slowing down of arms and hands as the accumulator lag angle( left wrist cock) is released. So which section of the swing do you want the arm speed to be the same?

Sorry if I misunderstand your intention. What sort of answer are you expecting - a theoretical explaination / equations / a single numerical value???

If you can clear this up for us then cool.

Merci

Hi BullDog

Well One of Us Can't Read or One of Us Can't Write or Both!
At Least We Learned that A Double Pendulum Produces 50% more Velocity than a Single Pendulum Before the Wheels Fell Off.....
Since the Release is Crucial in Determining the OutCome of a GolfSwing I thought it Would Merit more thorough Study but I Guess Not......

Cheers

 

[birdie_man]

So....

I dunno if it's already been said........

But:

WHY do some people hit it further with an earlier release? Why can they generate more speed?

I understand it has to do WITH hand speed......or at least this is what you've found Brian......

But why does this make for a loss in speed? How does it work?

When trying for a later release, do a person's "slow hands" cause the pivot to also slow down just so the hands can "keep up"?

 

[mandrin]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating

So....

I dunno if it's already been said........

But:

WHY do some people hit it further with an earlier release? Why can they generate more speed?

I understand it has to do with hand speed......

But why?

When trying for a later release, do a person's "slow hands" cause the pivot to also slow down just so the hands can "keep up"?

birdie_man

Of all the slow motion clips or swing sequences you might have seen of pros, how many exhibit early release?

 

[birdie_man]

Not many sir. The majority for sure are fairly late or somewhere in between "latest" and "earliest."

The earliest that come to mind at the moment are Tom Weiskopf (from what I've seen), Tom Watson, and Johnny Miller. (from what I've seen)

Why do you ask?

Got any ideas?

 

[Bronco Billy]

birdie_man

Of all the slow motion clips or swing sequences you might have seen of pros, how many exhibit early release?

Hi mandrin

First of All I Believe in the 50% Gain in Club Head Speed of a Late Release as Predicted by the Double Pendulum Model.... I am also Quite Sure this could be Verified Real Time by analyzing Tape of Touring Pros..... What Puzzles Me is the Sweep release of Tom Watson and Big Jack and maybe Weiscoff..... They Just don't Look like Normal Late Releases but they sure as Hell Generate Equivalent Club Head Speed......

Cheers

 

[mandrin]

Not many sir. The majority for sure are fairly late or somewhere in between "latest" and "earliest."

The earliest that come to mind at the moment are Tom Weiskopf (from what I've seen), Tom Watson, and Johnny Miller. (from what I've seen)

Why do you ask?
Got any ideas?

Why do you ask?

It settles the matter of what is likely the optimum way to go about release.


Got any ideas?

” WHY do some people hit it further with an earlier release? ”

Perhaps by obtaining improved clubface impact conditions with an early release. Instead of chopping down creating a more elongated sweetspot.

” Why can they generate more speed? ”

Some people likely generate more clubhead speed with a non optimum swing. Hence there might be a max speed swing vs. most efficient swing, not necessarily the same for a particular golfer.

"I understand it has to do WITH hand speed......or at least this is what you've found Brian......

But why does this make for a loss in speed? How does it work?

When trying for a later release, do a person's "slow hands" cause the pivot to also slow down just so the hands can "keep up"? ”

Each golfer has a very personal way of generating torque during the down swing. It determines subsequently the forceful unfolding of the golf club which determines largely what happens to the hands during impact.

If torques are produced aggressively right from the top than most likely hands appear very quite during impact. However someone starting very smoothly and trying to peak around or even beyond impact will have somewhat more motion of the hands through impact.

An aggressive sit down motion ala Tiger generates lots of kinetic energy from the very start and leads more readily to a down swing having very ‘quiet’ hands through impact.

Hands are merely attached to the arms which are connected to the upper body. Two swings could have identical clubhead impact velocities but nevertheless show noticeable difference in speed for the hands during impact.

All this matter is riddled with feel vs facts. It could however be rather easily settled doing measurements using a skilled golfer able to swing repeatedly and consistently in a variety of ways. Just patch up Brian with some appropriate gauges ..........

 

[tongzilla]

not so simple

hands as a unit can be still but there is the Cocking/Uncocking and Turning/Rolling motion of the hands.

 

[mandrin]

keeping it simple and to the point

hands as a unit can be still but there is the Cocking/Uncocking and Turning/Rolling motion of the hands.

The matter is clubhead speed and any positive wrist action is a very small factor in this regard. Could even be detrimental. Only of real importance is a possible negative retaining wrist torque first part of downswing.