It's Math Anyway (with a Brian Manzella video)
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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No impact no shot. Chicken and the egg footwedge!
I'll stick with impact instead of swinging blindly and hoping I guess correctly.
It's all about impact and the good players know this. This debate isn't about some hack who doesn't need Trackman and you COULD eyeball their problems.
I'll stick with impact instead of swinging blindly and hoping I guess correctly.
It's all about impact and the good players know this. This debate isn't about some hack who doesn't need Trackman and you COULD eyeball their problems.
Dariusz J.
New member
Trackman or any other tool will never teach kinetics. One must have solid fundamentals of the motion first. Then different tools are very useful to "finesse" it, eventually.
Imagine pre-secret Hogan - his kinetics were wonderful, he needed a finesse treatment. He did it without tools but it must have been a darn long, tough and frustrating trip with many range hours dedicated to trying out multiple concepts he invented. Luckily, the correct one slipped to his mind in 1946. With a powerful tool, he could have sorted the problem out much sooner.
OTOH, the tool alone won't make a post-secret Hogan out of an average tour pro, I am afraid.
Cheers
Imagine pre-secret Hogan - his kinetics were wonderful, he needed a finesse treatment. He did it without tools but it must have been a darn long, tough and frustrating trip with many range hours dedicated to trying out multiple concepts he invented. Luckily, the correct one slipped to his mind in 1946. With a powerful tool, he could have sorted the problem out much sooner.
OTOH, the tool alone won't make a post-secret Hogan out of an average tour pro, I am afraid.
Cheers
I didn't say that, your blinded by your obsession with Trackman. It's not a chicken and egg, the golfer has to initiate for a result to be recorded, then and only then can the person operating the Trackman make a calculated guess on what the golfer needs to do to affect the better #'s, end of story, it's swing first then adjust, every single time till you get where you want to be if you ever get there and can repeat it, which some can and some can't. The golfer's swing attempt is first, period, that's what I said.
mgranato
New
How 'bout we let those who are unconvinced, unimpressed, or uninformed about TM/FS remain that way. I would actually prefer to have two distinct camps. Leave them be, they like their ideas and the things that support them, and hate what doesn't - great for the rest of us.
If things have regressed to the point of questioning the benefits of using TM/FS - then really what's the point in continuing the dialogue? I love the pace of useful information that flows around this site, but all this nonsense just seems to be slowing things down.
I say all this selfishly on behalf of my own swing and scores.
If things have regressed to the point of questioning the benefits of using TM/FS - then really what's the point in continuing the dialogue? I love the pace of useful information that flows around this site, but all this nonsense just seems to be slowing things down.
I say all this selfishly on behalf of my own swing and scores.
You didn't communicate such idea at all. I'm blinded by obsession for improvement. You think we said the golfer does nothing???? It's impact backwards for the believers. Do whatever you want for the deniers. Impact is objective!!
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Matt 4-L
New
How 'bout we let those who are unconvinced, unimpressed, or uninformed about TM/FS remain that way. I would actually prefer to have two distinct camps. Leave them be, they like their ideas and the things that support them, and hate what doesn't - great for the rest of us.
If things have regressed to the point of questioning the benefits of using TM/FS - then really what's the point in continuing the dialogue? I love the pace of useful information that flows around this site, but all this nonsense just seems to be slowing things down.
I say all this selfishly on behalf of my own swing and scores.
Yes I agree, let's get back to talking about the sec vrs. the big ten. I missed the game today how did my alma mater Michigan State do against Georgia?
mgranato
New
Love it! You guys figured out how to beat Georgia... be a good team. They've played 4 this year and lost to all 4.
But that is probably where you want to end the SEC v Big 10 discussion.
Good win.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Pathetic really. You look at the ballflght or the desired ballflght. Then what the club did to make that ballflght
Ight and then what the body did to make the club do what it did. You obviously don't teach. Grade school stuff?? Take away the ball and the club and you have a human sitting there waiting....waiting. Hard to believe we can even have this debate. But on golf forums nothing should surprise anyone anymore.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Try this experiment. Take a new player and don't give him a club or ball and teach him how you think the body should move. Or.....take the same player and explain some things about impact and how the club should move. See which works better. Grade school stuff.
mgranato
New
Come on, "they" don't have the power to do that. That's on us. Staying in these circular "discussions" and battling straw men is up to us. At a certain point, what's the point?
Steve Greffen
New
Too funny! I remember a guy in Orange County California that did that. (I'm sure he's not the only one) Had numerous lessons before the student would even get to hit the ball. Don't believe he had much success.
Wasn't the other poster talking about the same thing that you need to show someone first how to use the club and that would involve the body. Not make the body move without a club and ball, just that a person has to do something first and that would include a club and ball then the machine can do it's thing next, that's how I read it.
For a beginner the movements are very important and you could just focus on movement, but we've never talked about Trackman for beginners. There has to be some level of competency assumed in any discussion about golf. Beginners don't need Trackman but I'm sure it could help.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I have used TrackMan in most beginner lessons for over two years. Mostly for my own use.
Checking my work.
Some folks don't want their work checked.
Checking my work.
Some folks don't want their work checked.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Maybe. Like I said originally...I don't know what people do (until foot wedge told us), I just couldn't believe anyone wouldn't diagnose a problem in the order of flight, club then body.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Hall-of-fame post.
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