Just Another Friggin' Golf Myth???

[Bronco Billy]

Hi There

Mandrin and Others have Shown that Golf Robots such as PingMan Etc. can be Modeled by a Double Pendulum Mathematical System.... This Double Pendulum Model clearly Shows that a Gain of Approximately 50% Gain is Achieved by a "Late Release"..... That is if the Robot's Arm is moving at 50 mph at Impact the clubHead is traveling at 75 mph....

Does a Human Golfer Gain this Same 50% gain in Speed with a "Late Release" or is the Late Release in a Human Golfer Just Another Friggen Golf Myth??????

Cheers

 

[self-mastery]

I think that accumulator lag isn't the key to power.

 

[birdie_man]

I think I agree. You need some delay but everyone's different with that I think......but you gotta juice that pivot baby.

What's this though...?? 50% clubhead speed increase for Mr. PINGMAN with a more delayed release?

 

[Bronco Billy]

I think I agree. You need some delay but everyone's different with that I think......but you gotta juice that pivot baby.

What's this though...?? 50% clubhead speed increase for Mr. PINGMAN with a more delayed release?

Here's the way it Works BirdMan.....If one Freezes Pingman's free Hinge and connect a Golf Club in a Straight Line with Pingman's Arm.... You Know make the Pingman swing Stiff Armed..... Ok now fire pingmans arm so the straight armed Club impacts the Ball at 50 mph..... Guess what Impact speed is 50 mph.... Ok now free pingmans hinge and set the club at 90 Degrees so it will Release per Usual..... Fire pingman's arm at same 50 mph as before.... Guess what the Ball Impact speed is now 75 mph!!!! guess what a free 25 mph clubhead speed!!!! Were you aware of this 25 mph Gift????? I am bettin most out there also are not aware and probably believe what I am saying is BullSh*t.....

Now for the Friggen Question.... Does the Human Golfer get the same Free 50% Speed Gift with a Late Release??????

 

[holeout]

Here's the way it Works BirdMan.....If one Freezes Pingman's free Hinge and connect a Golf Club in a Straight Line with Pingman's Arm.... You Know make the Pingman swing Stiff Armed..... Ok now fire pingmans arm so the straight armed Club impacts the Ball at 50 mph..... Guess what Impact speed is 50 mph.... Ok now free pingmans hinge and set the club at 90 Degrees so it will Release per Usual..... Fire pingman's arm at same 50 mph as before.... Guess what the Ball Impact speed is now 75 mph!!!! guess what a free 25 mph clubhead speed!!!! Were you aware of this 25 mph Gift????? I am bettin most out there also are not aware and probably believe what I am saying is BullSh*t.....

Now for the Friggen Question.... Does the Human Golfer get the same Free 50% Speed Gift with a Late Release??????

Wouldn't it depend on what part of the "arm" you were measuring the speed by? The speed will be faster the farther down the arm you get.

Let's say you measure the speed of the hands at 50 mph. If the club is put in a straight line with the arm, the clubhead speed would be MORE than 50 mph. However, I do believe you that the clubhead speed would be faster with a free hinge. But the clubhead speed would not be the same as the hand speed.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Wouldn't it depend on what part of the "arm" you were measuring the speed by? The speed will be faster the farther down the arm you get.

Let's say you measure the speed of the hands at 50 mph. If the club is put in a straight line with the arm, the clubhead speed would be MORE than 50 mph. However, I do believe you that the clubhead speed would be faster with a free hinge. But the clubhead speed would not be the same as the hand speed.

All Said was to set the stiff arm club ball impact speed at 50 mph.....
then leave all setting alone and fire with the club set at 90 Degrees... Don't CONFUSE the Friggen Original conditions.... It's not a trick Question there is an actual 50% Gain....

Does a Human Golfer get the same Gift with a Late Release????

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/moetown/mandrin/golf/One_vs_two_levers.html

 

[puttmad]

I read somewhere recently that arm speed only contributes about 20% towards total swing speed...
Therefore taken logically, the 50% gain is only 50% of 20% (if you see what I mean)...

 

[holeout]

All Said was to set the stiff arm club ball impact speed at 50 mph.....
then leave all setting alone and fire with the club set at 90 Degrees... Don't CONFUSE the Friggen Original conditions.... It's not a trick Question there is an actual 50% Gain....

Does a Human Golfer get the same Gift with a Late Release????

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/moetown/mandrin/golf/One_vs_two_levers.html

Gotcha.

I guess that the answer to your question would be that it depends on one thing: can the given human golfer produce the same arm speed with the club at a 90 degree angle as he/she can with the club "in line"? If he/she can, I would think that this gain is believable. But if not (which one would suspect to be the case), then the gain would be less so.

 

[cmartingolf]

Hello Bronco Billy,

Release Interval (Centrifugal Reaction) is perfect with a Ping Man. Thus, it gets the maximum mph of benefit (whatever the H that is). We should be so lucky. I'm sure it's toward that number with better players and simply arm speed with the hacker.

 

[golfbulldog]

Gotcha.

I guess that the answer to your question would be that it depends on one thing: can the given human golfer produce the same arm speed with the club at a 90 degree angle as he/she can with the club "in line"? If he/she can, I would think that this gain is believable. But if not (which one would suspect to be the case), then the gain would be less so.

I think that the human golfer can increase the arm speed more readily if the club is at 90 degrees...less moment of inertia of arm/club unit....easier to turn arms...so arms can go faster .

Humans find a stiff arm swing much more difficult to move at speed.

So keeping the wrist cock ( accumulator 2 left wrist angle) makes it easier for the golfer to achieve the higher arm speed ...and when released gives extra mph.

I think...

 

[JamesBurg]

Hi BB,

Still working with that late release, huh. I think I have told you before that a late release is not something that you have to think about. It's automatic in a good swing.

I don't know about the Ping Man and other humans, but with my wrists stiff, I would guess that my clubhead speed would be about 25mph just before impact with my driver. With my normal swing, it's about 100mph. Hummm,that's a 400% gain.

Yep, that late release is a good thing.

Cheers

 

[Bronco Billy]

Hi BB,

Still working with that late release, huh. I think I have told you before that a late release is not something that you have to think about. It's automatic in a good swing.

I don't know about the Ping Man and other humans, but with my wrists stiff, I would guess that my clubhead speed would be about 25mph just before impact with my driver. With my normal swing, it's about 100mph. Hummm,that's a 400% gain.

Yep, that late release is a good thing.

Cheers

Hi JB

Actually I think the Late Release in the Human Golf Swing is the Biggest Piece of BullSh*t ever Propogated in Modern Golf Swing Theory..... 90% or more of ClubHead Velocity is Generated by a Sweep Release like in Hockey.... The Friggen so called Late Wrist release ONLY moves the Clubhead from a 90 degree set down to a position necessary to contact the GolfBall.... The Speed of this wrist movement contributes very little to clubhead Velocity..... The Double Pendulum Math Model and Pingman Type Robots Do NOT represent the Human Golf Swing.... Big Jack and Tom Watson Prove this Beyond a Doubt.... Also Mac O'Grady was RIGHT..... TGM is Way to Geometricaly Orientated and Not Near Enough Physics Orientated... Macs Got 2 Brains.... How could he be Wrong? What Do You Think of Them Apples...

Cheers

 

[JamesBurg]

Hi BB,

I'm really not sure if I have a late release of a sweep release. It's just not something that I think about. You know that I use that mystical left shoulder pull which makes all of that stuff automatic.

Sorry, but I don't have much scientific curiousity about it.

Cheers

 

[birdie_man]

Hi JB

Actually I think the Late Release in the Human Golf Swing is the Biggest Piece of BullSh*t ever Propogated in Modern Golf Swing Theory..... 90% or more of ClubHead Velocity is Generated by a Sweep Release like in Hockey.... The Friggen so called Late Wrist release ONLY moves the Clubhead from a 90 degree set down to a position necessary to contact the GolfBall.... The Speed of this wrist movement contributes very little to clubhead Velocity..... The Double Pendulum Math Model and Pingman Type Robots Do NOT represent the Human Golf Swing.... Big Jack and Tom Watson Prove this Beyond a Doubt.... Also Mac O'Grady was RIGHT..... TGM is Way to Geometricaly Orientated and Not Near Enough Physics Orientated... Macs Got 2 Brains.... How could he be Wrong? What Do You Think of Them Apples...

Cheers

Uh..........if you're being sarcastic it isn't anywhere near obvious enough first of all.

Also.................yes you listed 2 golfers. (Jack and Tom Watson) They are in the Hall Of Fame.

Do check out the rest of the HOF for Trigger Delay though. It's for sure not 100% Snap Releases (and I can't do it either) but they're pretty well represented in there that's for sure.

Also check out Bubba Watson, JB Holmes.

It's not an imperative....and ur right it's not as big as pivot....but come on now.

BTW The PINGMAN does release very early.....and.....I don't even comprehend this statement:

"90% or more of ClubHead Velocity is Generated by a Sweep Release like in Hockey...."

 

[Bronco Billy]

Uh..........if you're being sarcastic it isn't anywhere near obvious enough first of all.

Also.................yes you listed 2 golfers. (Jack and Tom Watson) They are in the Hall Of Fame.

Do check out the rest of the HOF for Trigger Delay though. It's for sure not 100% Snap Releases (and I can't do it either) but they're pretty well represented in there that's for sure.

Also check out Bubba Watson, JB Holmes.

It's not an imperative....and ur right it's not as big as pivot....but come on now.

BTW The PINGMAN does release very early.....and.....I don't even comprehend this statement:

"90% or more of ClubHead Velocity is Generated by a Sweep Release like in Hockey...."

Number One I am not being Sarcastic.... I Truly Believe Everything I Wrote to Be True..... I am NOT saying that Most Tour Class Players do Not Release.... I am Saying that they ALL Sweep and Most(~90%) of the Club Head Velocity is Produced by the Sweep and NOT by the WRIST Release- be it Early, Late, Fast or Slow, Snap or Whatever.... I'm Betten Physics will Show this....

It is Very Humorous to me that the TONE of Your Post makes Out like I am Saying something so Outrages and Sacrileges that My Words should not even be Uttered.....

 

[birdie_man]

Number One I am not being Sarcastic.... I Truly Believe Everything I Wrote to Be True..... I am NOT saying that Most Tour Class Players do Not Release.... I am Saying that they ALL Sweep and Most(~90%) of the Club Head Velocity is Produced by the Sweep and NOT by the Release- be it Early, Late, Fast or Slow, Snap or Whatever.... I'm Betten Physics will Show this....

Most tour players have Random Sweep Releases.

i.e. somewhere between earliest possible and latest possible.

Definitely not Sweep.

It is Very Humorous to me that the TONE of Your Post makes Out like I am Saying something so Outrages and Sacrileges that My Words should not even be Uttered.....

Well I think what you wrote was very far off the mark and kind of ridiculous to be honest. So that should explain my TONE.

Maybe I am missing something (esp./at least with things relating to your thesis in the bolded part of your post above) and don't have you "right" but I do not think so. Unless you are missing something and/or don't have yourself "right".....

For the record I do think the pivot is more important in producing speed.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Most tour players have Random Sweep Releases.

i.e. somewhere between earliest possible and latest possible.

Definitely not Sweep.



Well I think what you wrote was very far off the mark and kind of ridiculous to be honest. So that should explain my TONE.

Maybe I am missing something (esp./at least with things relating to your thesis in the bolded part of your post above) and don't have you "right" but I do not think so. Unless you are missing something and/or don't have yourself "right".....

For the record I do think the pivot is more important in producing speed.

I am Not a TGMer.... Sweep to me is the entire path the clubhead travels in the DownSwing...... Wrist release to me is the 1 or 2 foot travel the club head moves from the 90 degree angle to the angle necessary to Impact the golf Ball..... This Wrist Release contributes very little to total ClubHead Impact Velocity.... You are NOT a robot and your Wrist Does Not Function as a Robot's Free Hinge Therefore You do NOT get the Free 50% ClubHead Velocity Gift as predicted by a Double Pendulum Model..... I am Truly Sorry I Turned Your World UpSide Down.......

 

[puttmad]

...

Number One I am not being Sarcastic.... I Truly Believe Everything I Wrote to Be True..... I am NOT saying that Most Tour Class Players do Not Release.... I am Saying that they ALL Sweep and Most(~90%) of the Club Head Velocity is Produced by the Sweep and NOT by the WRIST Release- be it Early, Late, Fast or Slow, Snap or Whatever.... I'm Betten Physics will Show this....

Don't agree with you there, Billy,,...
Most of the C/H speed is produced by the release, which has nothing to do with the sweep (or do you mean arm-speed?)....

 

[Bronco Billy]

Don't agree with you there, Billy,,...
Most of the C/H speed is produced by the release, which has nothing to do with the sweep (or do you mean arm-speed?)....

Again You are NOT a Friggen Robot and you do NOT get the 50% free Velocity Gift as predicted by the Double Pendulum Model..... This Fallacy is so Ingrained that the Mere Utterance of anything Different is HERESY or IGNORANCE to You.....

 

[birdie_man]

I am Not a TGMer.... Sweep to me is the entire path the clubhead travels in the DownSwing......

O well shoot that explains a lot. I thought you were talking about TGM terms. My mistake on assuming but it's funny because in TGM the term "Sweep Release" exactly means "earliest possible release point."

Hopefully that clears up some of the misunderstanding.

Wrist release to me is the 1 or 2 foot travel the club head moves from the 90 degree angle to the angle necessary to Impact the golf Ball..... This Wrist Release contributes very little to total ClubHead Impact Velocity.... You are NOT a robot and your Wrist Does Not Function as a Robot's Free Hinge Therefore You do NOT get the Free 50% ClubHead Velocity Gift as predicted by a Double Pendulum Model..... I am Truly Sorry I Turned Your World UpSide Down.......

You have not "Turned My World UpSide Down" so there's no need to apologize, sir.

I guess I'll say- "sorry for putting a damper on your victory party." (you can keep trying though)

...

OK now that I think I have this one straight I will try to tackle exactly what you're trying to put forward on the science end.

Your thesis as understood by me and paraphrased from your writing:

"The 1 or 2 foot travel the club head moves from the 90 degree angle to the angle necessary to Impact the golf Ball contributes very little to total ClubHead Impact Velocity."

"I think the Late Release in the Human Golf Swing is the Biggest Piece of BullSh*t ever Propogated in Modern Golf Swing Theory.....90% or more of ClubHead Velocity is Generated by a Sweep Release like in Hockey.... The Friggen so called Late Wrist release ONLY moves the Clubhead from a 90 degree set down to a position necessary to contact the GolfBall.... The Speed of this wrist movement contributes very little to clubhead Velocity.....What Do You Think of Them Apples..."

...

First of all....how much is very little?

Secondly.....while I don't have any numbers or anything other than my own speculation, I'm having a hard time with the idea that the club does not gain speed when "the angles are released."