K-Vest and Flightscope: An Awesome Learning Experience
- Thread starter Jared Willerson
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Matt 4-L
New
Now that's funny....until your wife reads it, what did you say her email address is? I will have to take a screen shot of your post for later use.
No honey, I have no idea why I am part of a Facebook group called "Certified K-Vest professionals"
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
That's the spirit! These guys have to get control of their women! Who wears the pants around here!!
ehanczaryk
New
Jared, mgranto, Mike Jacobs, any other KVest/ FS users.... I use that combination in my teaching as well, and a question keeps coming up. Assuming a good backswing, the kvest recommended downswing sequence is hips, shoulders, arms. But to me, if there is out toss, and some arm separation from the shoulders, (stay wound up) shouldn't the sequence read one three two? KVest seems to imply that the arms don't move until the shoulders move first. Thanks.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
In my experience the out toss is the result of a good sequence. I got the club head moving sooner with a better sequence. The out toss should aid in getting the body to work right.
The out toss to me is just a reminder to not drag and tug. The K vest sequence recommendations help me with that as well.
The out toss to me is just a reminder to not drag and tug. The K vest sequence recommendations help me with that as well.
mgranato
New
What helps me is to remind myself where the sensors are. In other words, shifting my thinking from "shoulders" to t-spine or rib cage, and from "arms" to lead hand has help me better understand what's being measured and where to put my attention. Thinking "Big shoulder turn" and "faster arm swing" got me a KS graph that looked like a 3 year old's crayon drawing you'd hang on the frig.
Because of my bends and turns (and when they occurred) I was severely limiting myself with what I could do on the downswing. It wasn't until all that got cleaned up I was able to clean up the transition sequence, and then able to finally see (and really feel) the better hand path I've been chasing. The hand path became a result of the moves preceding it. The out toss doesn't happen in isolation. The other segments should be doing there part in space and time. When they do, I believe you'll see the 1,2,3 sequence and all the benefits of the out toss.
I'll preface this with I've never been on a 3d capture device.
Isn't the 1, 2, 3 sequence mainly a sequencing of peak speed for each segment during the downswing? Unless you are talking about the sequencing of the transition where the hands may move sooner than the torso with an out-toss move too soon?
JEREMY5577
New
Mike, can you talk about how the torso bends and turns on the back swing to get the proper amount of side bend at the top? And what mistakes someone without k-vest would normally make?
mgranato
New
The trends I'm seeing with non juniors is at address starting with too little pelvis bend and too much torso bend. This has a big influence on their top of swing with too much torso forward bend and not enough side bend. The pelvis gets over rotated to help the torso get more turn. From this poor pelvis position, these guys have little chance for the pelvis to be the good strong 1st gear of the engine, so the second and third gears have to fire earlier then they should... poor timing, sequencing, acceleration, and deceleration.
It's critical to get the pelvis starting from a good position. If the pelvis isn't doing it's job, it's gonna be harder for the torso to transition from its forward bend at address to the side bend at the top, which in turn, makes it more difficult to get the turn separation/stretch.
If the torso is having some trouble, look at the pelvis to see how it's working. If the top is giving you trouble, look at the address and early takeaway.
It's critical to get the pelvis starting from a good position. If the pelvis isn't doing it's job, it's gonna be harder for the torso to transition from its forward bend at address to the side bend at the top, which in turn, makes it more difficult to get the turn separation/stretch.
If the torso is having some trouble, look at the pelvis to see how it's working. If the top is giving you trouble, look at the address and early takeaway.
JEREMY5577
New
Thanks great information. I tend to set up with my rear end tucked in with maybe 10° pelvic bend. It is tricky to stick your rear end out and not let your lower back s-curve and not bend over too much. It takes some training of moving the pelvis independently.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
Jeremy, that is the exact position I was in. You are right, it is tough to reconcile.
JEREMY5577
New
Well my back swing has always looked unorthodoxed no matter how hard I tried to put the club in a nice position at the top it just would not go there, I didn't think setup could be the problem. Ironically I thought my setup was pretty good, but I wasn't thinking of the torso bend and pelvis bend as different positions. At least not at address. Jared, great thread I'm assuming MJ's second video will address much of what we are talking about here.
Dear JEREMY 5577,
To you, an early and appreciated supporter, I must admit that I did not, and have not completely defined all the aspects of BBKIB that result from a dynamically balanced swing. One of these unnoticed advantages comes from reviewing the the expanded studies of Dr. Serge Gracovetskys "Spine Engine" work, where we used the results of the 'non-golf', industrial movement aspects to better understand and determine force and torque characteristics and how they may affect lower back injury.
The conclusions reached regarding golf were that more pelvic torque was available with some 'lordosis' which in turn, during the transition and early build up until the maximum rotational velocity of the pelvis was beneficial to both the kinematic sequencing, and the transfer of that pelvic angular momentum to the torso.
So in conclusion, DEFINITELY BBKIB, and try to add at least a flat lower back/lumbar section, and better yet a comfortable amount of 'lordosis' UNIQUE to each golfer, as this area of ones body is very subject t o differences in age, conditioning, previous injury etc. etc.
Sincerely,
art
JEREMY5577
New
Thanks art, I will work on it and as you know I've been working on BBKIB as long as anyone here.
GeoffDickson
New
Two great tips in this thread that are especially noteworthy.
1. Do not confuse pelvis bend with torso bend.
2. Lordosis at address
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordosis
1. Do not confuse pelvis bend with torso bend.
2. Lordosis at address
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordosis
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