thefuture37
Banned
he also has steriods...
Lag
- Thread starter dsmith2296
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he also has steriods...
That is incorrect. Lots of lag doesn't mean you are "maximizing (your) potential power." Do we have to rehash the Zuback thread about his sweep release?
thefuture37
Banned
I hope not. It should be noted that zuback isn't a good model for the merits of a long hitting sweep release, because of his unusual amount of muscle.
birdie_man
New
Nono I mean "with everything else somehow being equal."
i.e. take the human element out of it..........now- does a clubhead go faster with more delay/angle vs. less?
And ya I think we have been here before (pretty safe bet with all the stuff that goes down in here tho).........I think mandrin did some work on it. Gotta be in his 'release' threads.
dsmith2296
New
if distance = velocity x time, then I would think that a clubhead that makes its entire orbit during the time it takes the hands to travel the final 2 feet versus utilizing the entire time it take the hands to travel 4 feet would be moving faster.
Not sure what you are getting at here. While Zuback is pretty muscular, one of Brian's students (Lindsay Gahm) hits it longer with a full sweep release than she does with a snap release. Tom Watson can also really move it with a more full sweep-type release (at best he's a random release).
Now that I think about it, one of my Dad's friends has a large amount of "angle" on his downswing, but hits it nowhere.
All other things being equal, more "angle" will give you more distance. But a lot of the time, all other things are not equal.
look at chad campbelland lucas glover, they dont hit it huge distances
dsmith2296
New
Given a constant velocity of the HANDS moving down, the more acute angle and the delayed release MUST produce more clubhead speed.
If the hands of a snap releaser mover slower than the hands of a sweep releaser, the comparisons lose meaning,
If the hands of a snap releaser mover slower than the hands of a sweep releaser, the comparisons lose meaning,
thefuture37
Banned
So then use her as the model and not zuback. The point is that if you CAN increase your "lag" with everything else being equal, then you will increase your swing speed. Anyone who says differently is probably just trying to justify the fact that they cant do it.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
Glover moves it out there pretty good. Campbell does not, and neither does Tom Byrum and both of their swings have a Hoganesque look to them.
I am starting to think that distance is something you have or you don't, technique non-withstanding.
I am starting to think that distance is something you have or you don't, technique non-withstanding.
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We used Zuback as an example since he's a LDA champion (a few times over). But whatever.
And I agree with your last statement. All I'm saying is that just because someone has a ridiculous amount of "angle," like the guy in the Youtube video, it doesn't mean they have maximized their ability to hit it far.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Snap, Random, Full Sweep.
Basically, a SNAP release is very late, a RANDOM SWEEP somewhere in the middle, and a FULL SWEEP, very early.
Almost ZERO good players, Lindsey included, have a FULL Sweep release.
She is just what I'd call "Early Random."
Charles Howell is about as SNAP as you can get.
Mike Finney is often referred to as having a "Snap Release" but it ain't as SNAP as Howell's—or Finney's college days.
So what is best?
Well, from what I can figure after 26 years with this stuff, is that IT HAS TO FIT IN THE ACTUAL PATTERN OF AN ACTUAL GOLFER. So what is best, is as individual as any other component.
Snap Releasing has more POTENTIAL distance, for the reasons Darby talks about. But if it slows your hand speed....all bets are off.
But I don't hit it further with one. Nor does Lindsey, David Toms, or Adam Mallory, all Manzella Students.
Whether or not you have a down shift to the elbow plane, a pitch basic stroke, or "Maximum Trigger Delay," is one part of the lottery of genetics, one part when you learned to play and how big you and the club was you learned with, and one part who taught you and what worked and didn't.
All of that is why my "no method" teaching is two up on the first tee of the "who can teach best" part of the biz.
Basically, a SNAP release is very late, a RANDOM SWEEP somewhere in the middle, and a FULL SWEEP, very early.
Almost ZERO good players, Lindsey included, have a FULL Sweep release.
She is just what I'd call "Early Random."
Charles Howell is about as SNAP as you can get.
Mike Finney is often referred to as having a "Snap Release" but it ain't as SNAP as Howell's—or Finney's college days.
So what is best?
Well, from what I can figure after 26 years with this stuff, is that IT HAS TO FIT IN THE ACTUAL PATTERN OF AN ACTUAL GOLFER. So what is best, is as individual as any other component.
Snap Releasing has more POTENTIAL distance, for the reasons Darby talks about. But if it slows your hand speed....all bets are off.
But I don't hit it further with one. Nor does Lindsey, David Toms, or Adam Mallory, all Manzella Students.
Whether or not you have a down shift to the elbow plane, a pitch basic stroke, or "Maximum Trigger Delay," is one part of the lottery of genetics, one part when you learned to play and how big you and the club was you learned with, and one part who taught you and what worked and didn't.
All of that is why my "no method" teaching is two up on the first tee of the "who can teach best" part of the biz.
Steve Khatib
Super Moderator
How bad were Kostis's comments on Charles Howell?
Terrible!
Terrible!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG66HlzdG2k
yer thats pretty late lol
i say a contest to find the latest release
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li9wq33aHeg&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDR1EuclMvo&feature=related
other contenders - lucas glover, jamie sadlowski
yer thats pretty late lol
i say a contest to find the latest release
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li9wq33aHeg&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDR1EuclMvo&feature=related
other contenders - lucas glover, jamie sadlowski
wat comments are you refering to?
thefuture37
Banned
Do you think Zuback would be a lond drive champion if he wasn't crazy jacked up? I don't.
Steve Khatib
Super Moderator
His swing analysis during 3rd round. He said he was too late and needed to use his hands to square it up.
Clampett interviewed him post round and praised his dynamics so that kind of quashed that Kostis junk.
dsmith2296
New
Lets assume some stats. Lets say a person that has a HAND speed of 60 mph produces a CLUBHEAD speed of 100 mph which produces a BALL speed of 150 mph. Lets say this person's release is somewhere in the middle of full sweep and snap.
Now lets say that same person can delay his release more toward a snap release, whilst maintaining the 60 mph HAND speed. Since the clubhead must begin its orbit when the hands have moved 2/3 of the way toward impact as opposed to 1/2 toward impact, it MUST travel faster. And if the clubhead begins its orbit when the hands have moved only 1/4 toward impact, the clubhead has more time to make its orbit and must move slower, or be thrown away.
The trick here is that its takes a very coordinated and special person to swing alla Sergio/Charles Howell/this you tube guy and keep maximum hand speed, too.
Now lets say that same person can delay his release more toward a snap release, whilst maintaining the 60 mph HAND speed. Since the clubhead must begin its orbit when the hands have moved 2/3 of the way toward impact as opposed to 1/2 toward impact, it MUST travel faster. And if the clubhead begins its orbit when the hands have moved only 1/4 toward impact, the clubhead has more time to make its orbit and must move slower, or be thrown away.
The trick here is that its takes a very coordinated and special person to swing alla Sergio/Charles Howell/this you tube guy and keep maximum hand speed, too.
birdie_man
New
Good post Darby.
Your physics make perfect sense to me. (honestly)
But this makes me wonder how a guy like Zuback can be as good as he is...? If he is giving up speed to the field with his MUCH earlier release.........is it pure strength and rotation speed that sets him apart then? Can he be that much superior to everyone else physically??
And....what I don't get is.......
Whyyyy some people can't do the snap release...? Whyyyy can't they keep up the hand speed...?
I am a good athlete and can throw a ball far and all that........I just don't know how my hands can possibly be that much slower than some of these people.....
I am skeptical with the idea.....but I really don't know how to explain it myself. (no clue really) I wanna say "Well it is just one of those things..."
But surely it is something.
Your physics make perfect sense to me. (honestly)
But this makes me wonder how a guy like Zuback can be as good as he is...? If he is giving up speed to the field with his MUCH earlier release.........is it pure strength and rotation speed that sets him apart then? Can he be that much superior to everyone else physically??
And....what I don't get is.......
Whyyyy some people can't do the snap release...? Whyyyy can't they keep up the hand speed...?
I am a good athlete and can throw a ball far and all that........I just don't know how my hands can possibly be that much slower than some of these people.....
I am skeptical with the idea.....but I really don't know how to explain it myself. (no clue really) I wanna say "Well it is just one of those things..."
But surely it is something.
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