You're welcome.
"Laying off the club"
- Thread starter grahler
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You're welcome.
tennisdu
New
Thanks!
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Could you define "toss out"?
Well, he did say why he thinks Quiros does not have a "toss out" in his downswing.
"Quiros from the top...it's tight within his 7/8ths backswing".
S
SteveT
Guest
"Toss out"?... same as Nesbit/Manzella. Hope that helps...
Mike Richardson
New
Kevin, would you say he seems to tumble really late?
Mike Richardson
New
What confuses me is how from a face on view the club appears to be behind the head when the left arm is parallel to the ground but, if it is being laid off/flattened a lot, you would think it would "disappear" behind the golfer?
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
From face on, the clubhead laying off or tumbling makes it go away from or toward the camera. Not disappearing or appearing from behind the golfer. That would be an increase or decrease of the angle in the left wrist.
drewyallop
New
I am a bit confused here Kevin. I don't get this. Could you expand?
Shot Limit
New
From a DTL view for a right handed golfer, laying off (left of the plane), tumbling (right of the plane). From a face on view, there should be no difference, unless the player is adding wrist cock.
Picture a face on top of the BS position. Imagine the golfer adding wrist cock, the club will lower.
Picture a face on top of the BS position. Imagine the golfer adding wrist cock, the club will lower.
Mike Richardson
New
There's a range of 3D images of McIlroy's swing in a Golf World mag from a couple of months ago which appear to show the club almost pointing straight back behind him as he is coming down i.e the butt is pointing straight at the camera facing him.
Hope that makes sense.
You can see the same thing in the Las Vegas Quiros Callaway adjustable driver ads, as he starts down it's almost like he gets his wrists parallel to the ground.
I think Brian is showing this in the Where's The Torque video at around 2mins 40.
As I understand Kevin, you should do this negative tumble or laying off the club before you do the tumble, presumably to make the tumble more powerful.
It's pretty difficult for me to "fit it all in".
Hope that makes sense.
You can see the same thing in the Las Vegas Quiros Callaway adjustable driver ads, as he starts down it's almost like he gets his wrists parallel to the ground.
I think Brian is showing this in the Where's The Torque video at around 2mins 40.
As I understand Kevin, you should do this negative tumble or laying off the club before you do the tumble, presumably to make the tumble more powerful.
It's pretty difficult for me to "fit it all in".
I don't like the word tumble. There's a point where the trailing clubhead passes the
hands in the downswing and gets closer to the target line. In a good golf swing that
usually takes place in the area where the shaft approaches a parallel position to the
ground. To me, it's not a sudden falling and it can be pinpointed with precision if you
know what you're doing.
drewyallop
New
I am glad you brought this up Mike. I cannot fit it all in unless my hands go way high (reach for the sky). But then that is not where I put them because I cannot get the clubhead back to the ball with any consistency. Lower hands at transition = more consistency.
I am not sure in all the teaching here that this high hands question has been adequately discussed. For example, if you cannot or will not lift your arms and hands high what is really possible in hand path and torque application? And what is futile?
Maddening how just a few more inches of elevation of the hands/arms can completely unhinge a consistent swing. But then when you occasionally connect from the high position you immediately understand how much more power is available from there.
S
SteveT
Guest
I too have a problem with the generalized term "tumble". True Temper ShaftLab measured toe-up and toe-down positions within the downswing shaft loading profile, and this defines the type and rate of "tumble". Unfortunately, TT have discontinued ShaftLab but the base knowledge is still valid.
TT ShaftLab identified three basic shaft loading profiles -- double peak, single peak and ramp-up. There can even be hybrid profiles.
Tutelman explains the TT ShaftLab factors here:
Link: Lessons from ShaftLab
Have you determined your downswing shaft loading profile, and if yes, what is it?
It's best to stick with topics you know something about. Tumbling, as it is referred to in instruction, has nothing to do with shaft loading profiles.
Nothing.
S
SteveT
Guest
Please explain why TT ShaftLab downswing shaft loading profile which determines and defines the position of the clubhead... toe-up and toe-down... has "nothing" to do to "tumbling"?
Also how do you instruct for "tumbling" throughout the downswing?
Thanks in advance.....
In many great and dynamic golf swings, like Sergio and Fowler for example, the shaft lays down in transition to the point where the shaft may point at or above the ball in transition. In order for the clubhead to have an unimpeded line to the golf ball, the hands move down and in as the clubhead "tumbles" out toward the ball.
The reason most players don't feel a true tumble immediately after transition is because their shaft is too steep and tumbling the club further would create fats, pulls and toe hits. Tumbling the club can also help shallow golfers with open clubfaces square the clubhead and improve their angle of attack.
The reason most players don't feel a true tumble immediately after transition is because their shaft is too steep and tumbling the club further would create fats, pulls and toe hits. Tumbling the club can also help shallow golfers with open clubfaces square the clubhead and improve their angle of attack.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
High hands, flat club is a great combo
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