left wrist bend after impact? (with Brian Manzella Video Answer)

[holeout]

Geez,

You guys are wearing me out! I hurt my head reading this....

1. The "Puck" release: funny for a Limey to know a darn thing about hockey. I'm a transplant Canuck, played hockey for 30 years and sure the bottom wrist (on the stick) can do whatever you want it to do for the type of action you want on the puck....but the action Bradley is talking about is for a softer style shot, a "flip" per se.

2. The left wrist in picture 2 on the Bradley pics shows a very BENT left wrist IMO....not that my opion means much.

3. This look Bradley shows in his book will get a lot of hackers doing exactly what they want to do....return a club to the address position.... how 'bout showing some pics of HOGAN and his BOWED left wrist at impact??????

Cheers

Thank you for posting. My thoughts exactly.

 

[puttmad]

...

Puttmad

We obviously disagree about the basics. I look at the MA photo and I see a significant degree of rollover - possibly to the same degree as Ernie Els, where the back of Ernie Els' left hand (in the second photo) is facing groundwards. If Ernie Els didn't have roll over, the back of his left hand would be facing the tush line, and be parallel to the ball-target line, and perpendicular to the ground, at this point in the followthrough. However, Ernie Els significantly supinated his left hand, and pronated his right hand, in the early followthrough and this represents roll over. MA looks like he may be doing the same thing.

Jeff.

No he didn't...and he states it quite clearly in his teaching vids/dvds....

 

[self-mastery]

http://www.golfswing.com/proswings/jones.htm


http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6352&highlight=bobby+jones

 

[JeffM]

Puttmad

If you state that MA didn't have any roll over, I will accept that point, because I don't have enough knowledge of MA's swing to know otherwise.

To all - there is the belief that when the right wrist straightens post-impact, that it is impossible for the left wrist not to bend. I believe otherwise - and I believe that these images of Padraig Harrington, Charles Howell, and Stuart Appleby demonstrate an unhinged right wrist post-impact without any bending of the left wrist. If you disagree, then we simply have different definitions of what represents a bent left wrist (dorsiflexed left wrist) versus a FLW.

Jeff.

 

[starretj]

Puttmad

To all - there is the belief that when the right wrist straightens post-impact, that it is impossible for the left wrist not to bend. I believe otherwise - and I believe that these images of Padraig Harrington, Charles Howell, and Stuart Appleby demonstrate an unhinged right wrist post-impact without any bending of the left wrist. If you disagree, then we simply have different definitions of what represents a bent left wrist (dorsiflexed left wrist) versus a FLW.

Jeff.

Jeff, can you get the clubhead left of your left hand with a flat left wrist and your left hand knuckles not turned towards the ground?

Jim S.

 

[JeffM]

Jim - you asked-: "Jeff, can you get the clubhead left of your left hand with a flat left wrist and your left hand knuckles not turned towards the ground?"

Yes - I can easily accomplish that goal as long as both arms are fully straight and I rotate my torso in synchrony with my arms so that the clubshaft is centered between my arms and an imaginary extension line from the butt end of the club points at my navel, and the front of my torso is perpendicular to the clubshaft.

 

[puttmad]

....

If you disagree, then we simply have different definitions of what represents a bent left wrist (dorsiflexed left wrist) versus a FLW.

Jeff.

Jeez, this is like trying to straighten a banana....

Impact wrist..impact wrist....impact wrist..
There is only ONE flat left wrist!!!....

 

[jeffy]

Puttmad

To all - there is the belief that when the right wrist straightens post-impact, that it is impossible for the left wrist not to bend. I believe otherwise - and I believe that these images of Padraig Harrington, Charles Howell, and Stuart Appleby demonstrate an unhinged right wrist post-impact without any bending of the left wrist. If you disagree, then we simply have different definitions of what represents a bent left wrist (dorsiflexed left wrist) versus a FLW.

Jeff.

To all:

JeffMann is too modest to post stills of him demonstrating a flat left wrist at different parts of his swing. See how he maintains a flat left wrist from the top of the backswing through to his follow-through:

Top of backswing:

Follow-through:

Left-arm only demonstration:

You can find more here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ImperfectGolfer

 

[Leek]

Jeff, can you get the clubhead left of your left hand with a flat left wrist and your left hand knuckles not turned towards the ground?

Jim S.

Jim

I've experimented with this and can absolutely do this and hit a fade too. For me, the pivot has to continue driving so the hands don't "fly" past the core.

 

[starretj]

Yes - I can easily accomplish that goal as long as both arms are fully straight and I rotate my torso in synchrony with my arms so that the clubshaft is centered between my arms and an imaginary extension line from the butt end of the club points at my navel, and the front of my torso is perpendicular to the clubshaft.

Jeff, the clubhead is not in front of your left hand, you have just rotated. I'll give you a hint, you can't, but keep trying.

Jim S.

Leek, I just saw your reply, We posted at about the same time. I'm not talking about swinging, obviously the clubhead gets left of the hands in the swing. Jeff is under the impression that you can have both wrists flat at the same time. It is impossible. Try it without gripping a club if any help is needed.

 

[JeffM]

Jim

Of course the clubhead cannot pass the hands and have the left wrist remain flat if you define the clubhead passing the hands as the clubhead being ahead of the hands relative to the clubhead arced swingpath. However, if you define the clubhead being ahead of the hands as being with respect to the target, then it is possible to have a flat left wrist as previously described.

Jeff.

 

[starretj]

Jim

Of course the clubhead cannot pass the hands and have the left wrist remain flat if you define the clubhead passing the hands as the clubhead being ahead of the hands relative to the clubhead arced swingpath. However, if you define the clubhead being ahead of the hands as being with respect to the target, then it is possible to have a flat left wrist as previously described.

Jeff.

You are correct, but your right wrist won't be flat.

Jim S.

 

[JeffM]

Puttmad

According to your definition of a FLW it's impossible to have a FLW and/or a FRW when both arms are straight, but I regard the left and right hands as both being essentially flat in those posted photos (both wrists are functionally flat in the sense that they are not palmar flexed or dorsiflexed but neutral relative to the clubshaft). Your definition of a FLW (as seen at impact) is actually a state of slight palmar flexion with respect to my definition, which relates the forearm axis to the object being held. If the clubshaft grip is perfectly in line with the forearm axis then that is neutral from my perspective, and represents the functionally FLW situation, although there will obviously be slight cupping in the hand when holding the grip in a fist-like grip. If the grip is released and the palm is held perpendicularly to the grip with the fingers straight, then it will be flat according to your definition. I regard both situations as being essentially flat.

Jeff.

 

[JeffM]

Jim - I think that the right wrist will be flat if you accept my definition of flat (see above post - flat is a state where there is no dorsiflexion or palmar flexion of the wrist with respect to the object being held - using the forearm's longitudanal axis as the reference point)

Jeff.

 

[starretj]

Jim - I think that the right wrist will be flat if you accept my definition of flat (see above post - flat is a state where there is no dorsiflexion or palmar flexion of the wrist with respect to the object being held - using the forearm's longitudanal axis as the reference point)

Jeff.

Your right Jeff, by your definition of flat, which isn't flat, you can have both a left and right flat wrist at the same time(a bent left and right wrist for the rest of the normal world). Keep teaching your hogwash.
I've grown tired of this and I'm sure most others have also. Enough from my end. Be well.

Jim S.

 

[golfbulldog]

To paraphrase Brian...

the appearance of the left wrist before, during and after impact represent the forces acting on it at that time.... flat is flat because that is the way it looks when there is a direct longitudinal pull extending from the sweetspot to the left shoulder....that kind of "flat" can be interpreted visually as having a tiny cup...if there are no other forces acting on the system...

Add in other forces such as the drag experienced when the clubhead cuts turf and you get a slight arch of the left wrist or a visually flat wrist that we see in all the classic impact photos.

So a post impact flat wrist is when the "arms are being pulled from the shoulder sockets" ( or whatever Sam Snead and Ben Doyle said... see "How to play Golf"...)....the the sweetspot (COG of clubhead) is "pulling" on the arms and flattening the wrists as much as they can be ...given that both hands are on the club....

So i am tending to agree with Jeffman... although I do not like the Nick Bailey ?? images of release because he seems to suggest that release has loss of right wrist bend prior to impact....not good for most people....

 

[JeffM]

Golfbulldog wrote-: "So a post impact flat wrist is when the "arms are being pulled from the shoulder sockets" ( or whatever Sam Snead and Ben Doyle said... see "How to play Golf"...)....the the sweetspot (COG of clubhead) is "pulling" on the arms and flattening the wrists as much as they can be ...given that both hands are on the club...."

Exactly! If the arms are in line with the longitudanal force (sweetspot of the club) then the wrists will be as flat as they can be given the fact that both hands are on the club. That's what I mean by a functionally flat, or essentially flat wrist.

Jeff.

 

[puttmad]

I agree with starretj.....

BTW, what do you call a flat left wrist at the top then?.......

 

[puttmad]

Jeff,
Your problem stems from a mixup of terminology, between flat and neutral.....

I agree that the wrists in the photos are neutral (or "neutral at address" if you like), but not flat..
When we discuss a flat left wrist, we are talking about the back of the left hand being directly in line with the left forearm (remember the old trick of taping a ruler to the back of your left forearm)... the clubshaft has nothing to do with it, and neither does the grip..
Please don't confuse the two, or state FLW instead of neutral.......

 

[puttmad]

Jeez Jeff,
I give up with you..
You just can't keep things simple...a FLW is a FLW. That is an impact wrist, which you state is palmer flexed at impact (when it isn't). THE SHAFT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! THE SHAFT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!....

For Pete's sake simplify your definitions and save yourself all this argument....