left wrist bend after impact? (with Brian Manzella Video Answer)

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birdie_man

birdie_man

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Good lord.....we need Brian.

...

I will try though.

OK.

Flat is an absolute. "Flat" simply means flat. In any dictionary...

...and also in TGM:

4-A-1. FLAT - The Wrist is FLAT when the forearm and the back of the hand form a straight line.

...

As for the term "geometrically flat"...I am aware of it. I am not sure if it is in TGM. I think it may be. It doesn't overly matter to me though.

Personally, I do not think I like this term. I think it can cause confusion.

Case in point- this thread. (which I think has wasted much time)
 
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golfbulldog

golfbulldog

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The definitions of "flat" , and "level" (as in wrist) for that matter... as they are described in TGM are perhaps misleading because they are descibed primarily in visual terms.

In a swing involving a rotating centre with "centri-something" forces ( see other discussions) ( ie. swinger) these alignments are the results of forces and are perhaps therefore better defined by getting the player to recreate the forces ( longitudinal pull from clubhead COG to shoulder)??

And then look at the visual appearance of the wrsit as their personal memory of what it looks like??

A sort of "left wrist fix" alignment? but using force to determine appearance?

Any views? Not trying to change the world but maybe better than trying to say what is flat...
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Help please.

I will try to film an answer for this today.

I don't have time to read this whole thread.

Someone please ask the 5 most important questions, and I'll answer them in the video.

Thanks!
 
J

JeffM

New member
Questions for your video.

Question 1: Why should one have a FLW at impact?

It is my belief that the reason is two-fold. Correct me if I am wrong.

1) One wants to ensure that when the ball leaves the clubface after impact that the clubface should be square to the ball-target line to ensure a straight ball flight. Therefore, if one has a neutral grip and a clubface at address that is slightly open (1-2 degrees) that the back of the left hand should face the target at impact to meet condition 1. However, if the back of the left hand faces the target, it could be either perfectly flat or slightly/minimally cupped. If the back of the left wrist is perfectly flat, rather than slightly cupped, at impact, I believe that it implies a very small degree of palmar flexion - by which I mean that the clubshaft is not in line with the left forearm and that there is a small degree of forward shaft lean. That meets condition 2.

2) Condition 2. Forward shaft lean at impact is good because it results in a more solid ball strike. To get forward shaft lean at impact, one needs the hands to be slightly ahead of the clubhead at impact, which I think implies a very small degree of palmar flexion and that small degree of palmar flexion makes the left wrist perfectly flat. If there is too much forward shaft lean, then the left hand would be palmar flexed too much and that would result in an arched left wrist at impact. Therefore, I believe that a FLW actually implies a very small degree of palmar flexion at impact, which is the optimum impact alignment.

My question for you - could you please address all these issues when you render your opinion.

Question 2.

Another TGM instructor states unequivocally that the flat left wrist situation should be maintained during both the hinging action and the swiveling action - in other words, during both the followthrough and finish. He believes that the left flying wedge unit remains intact during the hinging action, and that requires a FLW (back of the left hand in line with the left forearm).

What is your opinion on these isues?

Jeff.
 
C

Cope

New
Couple of questions

Brian,

Can you discuss the Bradley wrist conditions in post #23 in TGM and your own terms? I know that someone can make any motion work well enough to play great golf, but would you teach Bradley's motion? Can you have a flat left wrist or even palmar flexed all the way to the end of the swing like you have in your avatar? Would the wrist conditions be largely based around how you grip, your build, swing style, desired ballflight, etc?

Could you describe a few wrist conditions based on a variety of grip strengths throughout the swing. It is simple to understand flat (seemingly) but when grips start changing the various conditions throughout the motion get a little more complex.

Thanks
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
My questions:

a. why do we all always talk about flat left wrist ? what is wrist ? isn't it a flexible part of an arm that links a forearm and a hand - and isn't it the hand that should be flat ?

b. if, hypotheticaly, wrists are very loose through the swing (I imagine a plain nunchakoo where the chain is 'the wrist') - shouldn't the very weight of the club moving around us lead to flat wrist/hand at impact provided the pivot is done correctly ?

Cheers
 
tourdeep

tourdeep

New
Brian Manzella said:
I will try to film an answer for this today.

I don't have time to read this whole thread.

Someone please ask the 5 most important questions, and I'll answer them in the video.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Is it possible to have simultaneous flat wrists at any point between impact and finish?

If so, How? If not, why?


Flat meaning within an acceptable level of deviation...
 
tank

tank

New
Dariusz J. said:
a. why do we all always talk about flat left wrist ? what is wrist ? isn't it a flexible part of an arm that links a forearm and a hand - and isn't it the hand that should be flat ?

Cheers
Click to expand...

Probably because it's the wrist that bends and/or cups.
Haveing your left hand flat, and your left wrist bent at impact would not do you much good in a full swing.
 
tourdeep

tourdeep

New
Dariusz J. said:
My questions:

a. why do we all always talk about flat left wrist ?
Cheers
Click to expand...

It is one of the foundations of TGM, an imperative. It is the heart and soul of Flipper video, maybe his best selling vid? BTW, Where's that "son of a..."!

A lot of things have changed with Neo's teachings since my involvement, but I really doubt that the flat left wrist, maybe not as important in certain parts of the swing, remains a must where it counts.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
Tank and Tourdeep, you have misundestood my question (probably it's my bad English again :( ) I know that it should be flat, that's beyond any discussion.
I asked why do we talk of the wrist and not of an outside part of the hand. BTW, the very wrist must be slightly bowed if we want our hand to be flat (i.e. parallel to the forearm)...

Cheers
 
tank

tank

New
Dariiusz, I cant think of another part of the hand arm structure that we could reference, that would clearly describe a flat left wrist. Is there a specific part of the hand that you have in mind?
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
Thank you, Brian, for answering my question in your video. I feel very honoured.
I suspected this - now I fully understand why you said once that one should learn a correct pivot first and then it would be easier for him to ingrain having a flat left wrist at impact.

All the best, cheers
 
C

Cope

New
Thanks

Brian,

Thanks for the response. My point was that the release that Nick Bradley teaches (as pictured in a post above) is not ideal. You explained that it would be a good way to hit mid-sole to trailing edge soft pitches. Therefore, it would not be the first choice for full power. We are on the same page, I think.

Thanks
 
P

pecky987

New
just going over this again :)

isnt a flat left wrist also to give a consistent low point location, as well as forward lean?
 
P

pureswing

New member
dale47 said:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/Mike_Austin_Sequence.JPG

I keep reading about how Mike's left wrist became bent immediately after impact and this why this "swing" is so revolutionary . Am I missing something on this sequence concerning his left wrist.
Click to expand...

If you had the Flammer training aid which Mike Austin is using in the swing sequence you would have your answer. I trained with Mike for 8 years and know his swing. There is a lot of incorrect information out there about his swing so check the source before you believe it to be true. Just a thought.
 
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