Less Shots or More Shots? - a hypothetical by Brian Manzella

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finncox

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DCgolf said:
Here's my thought and I'd like to have yours: the technology is only as good as the user. TRACKMAN has taught us a ton about impact and resulting ball flight. But at some point a human being has to make corrections, and then the student, complete with old habits, learning styles, personality, and all their personal baggage, has to be communicated with, corrected. It is then in the hands of teacher. Completely. So the machine did it's job, now what? At that point the teacher has an arsenal of fixes at his/ her disposal OR NOT. I watched a guy at a demo day recently who had not a clue what to do with 8 degree inside out hooks except to stiffen the shaft and add loft!!!
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As a corollary to this idea, some people still don't know how to use Trackman technology effectively. A lot of people think it's just a fitting tool.

Hell, didn't Tiger give an interview a month or two ago stating that, until recently, he'd never really understood how to use TM to work on his swing. Clearly, it's not a question of resources or access for him, just lack of use, despite available technology. I think it's catching on, but a lot of teachers still dismiss the use of a tool like TM, which gives the information to know what needs fixing.

Oh, and I agree with Brian, scores down w/ TM........up w/ video.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
finncox said:
Hell, didn't Tiger give an interview a month or two ago stating that, until recently, he'd never really understood how to use TM to work on his swing.
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A bit off-topic -- but if it is true, that tells much about his swing coach who was and supposedly still is a big proponent of Trackman. Geez.
Besides it must be a great excuse for his crappy last period since he left Haney. No matter how one tries to hide it -- that's the truth, unless I do not know something important.

Cheers
 
ZAP

ZAP

New
Dariusz J. said:
A bit off-topic -- but if it is true, that tells much about his swing coach who was and supposedly still is a big proponent of Trackman. Geez.
Besides it must be a great excuse for his crappy last period since he left Haney. No matter how one tries to hide it -- that's the truth, unless I do not know something important.

Cheers
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I have to think that Tiger's life was so out of control post accident that he had little or no chance to play high level golf. When your life is in turmoil there is no way you can compartmentalize well enough to have much focus at all. Unless he really is as self centered as they say.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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Eyeoffish said:
I have to think that Tiger's life was so out of control post accident that he had little or no chance to play high level golf. When your life is in turmoil there is no way you can compartmentalize well enough to have much focus at all. Unless he really is as self centered as they say.
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Post accident ? ROFL. Not laughing at you, God forbid, but at these words. LMAO.

Cheers
 
C

Clearwater

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Brian Manzella said:
I asked this provocative question to several teachers at the GBN Summit in Grand Cypress a few months ago:

If you could go back in a time machine to 1985 and ban the use of any video camera or graph-check camera in the entire world, would the WORLD SCORING AVERAGE from then to now go up or down?

Looking forward to your responses.....
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WITHOUT question it would have gone down. Just listen to the golf telecast this weekend!
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
I wonder how many of these who says the average hcp would have gone down actually researched the history a little. I guess not many.

The average 18-hole score for the average golfer remains at about 100, as it has for decades, according to the National Golf Foundation, an industry research-and-consulting service. Among more serious recreational golfers who register their scores with the U.S. Golf Association, the average handicap index, a scoring tool, has dropped 0.5 strokes since 2000. On the PGA Tour this year, the average score of players has risen, by 0.28 strokes, compared with 10 years ago.

If we assume that "decades" mean time range counted from Hogan/Snead times it appears that in a "non-video period" (1950-85) the average HCP did not change and EXACTLY the same happened through the "video period" (1985-2000) and even dropped 0.5 after the year 2000. We cannot say that the 0.5 stroke drop happened because of Trackman, neither of the so called new ball trajectory rules that everyone talks vividly for not more than 3-4 years from now (although they were known much much earlier).

For a separate attention -- the average score of tour players has risen, which does not surprise me at all.

Cheers
 
W

willgolfer

New
Dariusz J. said:
I wonder how many of these who says the average hcp would have gone down actually researched the history a little. I guess not many.

The average 18-hole score for the average golfer remains at about 100, as it has for decades, according to the National Golf Foundation, an industry research-and-consulting service. Among more serious recreational golfers who register their scores with the U.S. Golf Association, the average handicap index, a scoring tool, has dropped 0.5 strokes since 2000. On the PGA Tour this year, the average score of players has risen, by 0.28 strokes, compared with 10 years ago.

If we assume that "decades" mean time range counted from Hogan/Snead times it appears that in a "non-video period" (1950-85) the average HCP did not change and EXACTLY the same happened through the "video period" (1985-2000) and even dropped 0.5 after the year 2000. We cannot say that the 0.5 stroke drop happened because of Trackman, neither of the so called new ball trajectory rules that everyone talks vividly for not more than 3-4 years from now (although they were known much much earlier).

For a separate attention -- the average score of tour players has risen, which does not surprise me at all.

Cheers
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Tougher courses? Faster greens? Less dedicated practice time due to off course obligations?
 
coach

coach

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willgolfer said:
Tougher courses? Faster greens? Less dedicated practice time due to off course obligations?
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Or making so much money before even winning or having to win an event that making yourself the best you can be comes 2nd to spending and enjoying that money...
 
E

ej20

New
I say no change also but on average.

There will be some players who will improve like heck with video.An example is Nick Faldo.There will be some players who will get destroyed by video.An example was Seve ballesteros.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Higher. Most bad golfers have never seen their swing so they would stay the same. So out of the remaining golfers my bet more were helped by video than hurt. And that's coming from a guy who would've been far better served from never seeing his swing on camera.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Well....

We will never know, will we.

But, just find the full 1986 Masters, probably the last Major that really wan't influenced by a technology that came to be the year before, and watch the 2011 Masters.

Pretty much all the changes are video and opinion based.

It is a clear as a bell.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Here is an example:

If you go to every club in the country and find the club champion and HD super slow video him from every angle, and you show it to him...

(now we are back in the world we live in with cameras on phones, and obviously some of these club champ have seen themselves on video, almost none in HD super slow, and less than that from every angle).

Next year is the total handicap of that group higher or lower?
 
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