Lesson Case Study

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ZAP

ZAP

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Matt Bryda said:
Kevin,
I would like to hear the how this student progresses in the future if you would be willing to share his story.
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+1 to this. It is always interesting to me to hear lesson stories from the teacher perspective. I would actually be interested in hearing the thoughts Kevin had during my short game lesson. Cleaned up for daytime TV of course.:cool:
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
DCgolf said:
Seriously when you hinged his right wrist, you gave him the ability to keep the club head on his side of the tracks. Because he was then Unhinging down not out. Before that (and what he went back to i guess) at last parallel position his right palm is facing out causing him to unhinge OUT not down. Happens a lot with no wrist set. So no matter what hand path he still has an outside club head path. He likes that slinger action on the driver but hits the hosel rockets with the irons. Just a guess without seeing it. I know you guys dont do video any more but I'd love to see it.
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Actually Dennis, I thought it was slightly the other way around. Before he had no right wrist bent, he couldn't throw the clubhead out to the ball at all. So he took his hands out and unlocked the club down and undercut his irons....couldn't get on top of the ball. So he had inside and under clubhead path. Closing his stance with the driver allowed him to dump it early yet still get around and up on the teed up ball.
 
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Kevin Shields

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There are many players who have two completely different swings for the driver and irons. Davis Love I always thought was a good example of that. Really on top of the irons...good lines, so to speak, then really on his right side and a little under with the driver.
 
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Kevin Shields

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So anyway, the end of the lesson was fine. We went over what he started with and got back on track. I also offered 30 minutes on me the following day. There has never been a teacher ever that hasn't had something like this happen and I just thought it would be interesting to hear what some teachers would've thought.

Thanks, on to TPI for my fitting.
 
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Kevin Shields

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I knew this thread would get a rise out of the transverse abduction hip stall fringe lunatics. Didn't disappoint! How's life been in nowhere's land? Great forum when the owner has post as ten different people.
 
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DCgolf

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Kevin Shields said:
So anyway, the end of the lesson was fine. We went over what he started with and got back on track. I also offered 30 minutes on me the following day. There has never been a teacher ever that hasn't had something like this happen and I just thought it would be interesting to hear what some teachers would've thought.

Thanks, on to TPI for my fitting.
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Ur 100% correct in that it has happened to us all. But remember he will take away the part of the lesson when he was hitting it solid. They have more selective memory than we give them credit for. If he experienced impact he hasn't previously, that's what he takes. Mainly because there so few Places he can get that. Bad teaching keeps us in business!!!
 
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DCgolf

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Kevin Shields said:
Actually Dennis, I thought it was slightly the other way around. Before he had no right wrist bent, he couldn't throw the clubhead out to the ball at all. So he took his hands out and unlocked the club down and undercut his irons....couldn't get on top of the ball. So he had inside and under clubhead path. Closing his stance with the driver allowed him to dump it early yet still get around and up on the teed up ball.
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We might be saying the same thing here not sure. Just to clarify was the shank a path, club face or release shank IYO?
 
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DCgolf

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Kevin Shields said:
Wow, I'm thinking all three. He went out, dumped an open face.
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Wow. If you've hit out hands, in to out and open you ARE gonna put the hosel on it! Right palm down takes care of a lot of shanks but not if the path is that far out. Was at a Haney seminar where the guy started shanking. Hank didn't like it.
 
Matt 4-L

Matt 4-L

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OOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH! Thats gotta really bite! Who was it that bought Brian's old Trackman? I remember him saying it stayed in the Manzella academy. Any thoughts on getting one for yourself or just not in the budget?
 
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btp

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One extra thought or something that isn't perceived correctly can screw up a swing. If you got him hitting it better then you did your job. Something changed a little and his compensations no longer added up. Keep working on it and he will start to figure it out. Sounds like you showed him his potential and then it went bad.

In a 1 hour lesson you have about 10 minutes to figure out a plan. Some swings are pretty complex and you add in the students background and physical abilities. It can be a lot to figure out. I think that's why a lot of pros just teach one method.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Matt F. said:
OOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH! Thats gotta really bite! Who was it that bought Brian's old Trackman? I remember him saying it stayed in the Manzella academy. Any thoughts on getting one for yourself or just not in the budget?
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Am indoor to outdoor learning center with Trackman and some other 3d is currently in the infant stages. Hopefully by the fall.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
btp said:
One extra thought or something that isn't perceived correctly can screw up a swing. If you got him hitting it better then you did your job. Something changed a little and his compensations no longer added up. Keep working on it and he will start to figure it out. Sounds like you showed him his potential and then it went bad.

In a 1 hour lesson you have about 10 minutes to figure out a plan. Some swings are pretty complex and you add in the students background and physical abilities. It can be a lot to figure out. I think that's why a lot of pros just teach one method.
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Oh yeah, def not worried about this guy. It's just an example of lessons where the unexpected happens. It's like "whoa, where did that come from?" Alot has to do with the students reaction. Is it panic, in which they tune you out. Or is it curiosity, like they want to understand why that happened.
 
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SteveT

Guest
Reread my message #6... and then study the discussion about conscious and unconscious states of learning by an impressive "scientific team" in this video:

Nitro7 said:
Quick threadjack...did you see this program series spktho? Check it out.

Link: Charlie Rose - The Charlie Rose Brain Series 2: Consciousness
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So perhaps it is a matter of the "learning" aspects, and the "teaching" was fine. Your topic was relevant to the areas of Motor Learning and Sport Psychology within the Sport Sciences.
 
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