Luke Donald

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BrendanC

BrendanC

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Like Tiger when he dominated, he can make birdies on a certain type of hole. In Tiger's case it was par 5s, in Donald's it is short Par 4s and Par 3s.

Donald was a top performer on both Par 3s and Par 4s (along with David Toms, who is top 10 in both stats) - so holes where driving is not as important.

I have seen do a v.interesting drill where he practices his pivot with both arms full extended. Donald has also said that he is hitting it better because he stopped trying to hit it farther.

The snap hook left cost him many tournaments - but now that he does not try to bash the ball, he doesn't get it.
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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Tracking the angle between the left arm, or "upper" pendulum, and the shaft, or "lower" pendulum, sheds light on the timing of the release. As with the vast majority of Tour pros, the lower pendulum is lagging behind the upper pendulum at impact and does not pass the upper pendulum until well after the ball seperates from the clubface.

Donald_release.jpg
 
Steve Greffen

Steve Greffen

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Todd Dugan said:
Tracking the angle between the left arm, or "upper" pendulum, and the shaft, or "lower" pendulum, sheds light on the timing of the release. As with the vast majority of Tour pros, the lower pendulum is lagging behind the upper pendulum at impact and does not pass the upper pendulum until well after the ball seperates from the clubface.

Donald_release.jpg
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Isn't his swing in 3D though? Would think you would need some 3D numbers to be more accurate as to how the release is truly working and how the hub is moving.
 
O

OLIVER1

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...But have you ever seen a more even-keeled top tour golfer than Luke Donald? He seems to have the ability to go about his business without putting on the blinkers, comfortably interact with his surroundings and still perform at the highest level. Would people agree that that's somewhat rare and maybe a contributory factor in his success?
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
tomdavis76 said:
Sounds plausible. It was unlikely that he suddenly found a way to time his roll-over more consistently: he just throttled back even more.

That being the case, why so much love for this swing?
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I think we'd have to ask him.

I don't think there's any more love for his swing than any other. The #1 players swing is always going to get some attention, warranted or not.

Can you tell us about the "roll over" release?
 
J

Jared Willerson

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Anyone who puts their left hand on the wall properly in a still picture looks like they roll it over, not the case, but years and years of studying pics, that is what I thought too, to my detriment.

Very few people have a full out rolling a flat left wrist release.
 
D

DCgolf

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OLIVER1 said:
...But have you ever seen a more even-keeled top tour golfer than Luke Donald? He seems to have the ability to go about his business without putting on the blinkers, comfortably interact with his surroundings and still perform at the highest level. Would people agree that that's somewhat rare and maybe a contributory factor in his success?
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I agree and think he gets a tremendous confidence, hence his serenity, from an awesome short game...Seve-like, or in that mold anyway. Walter Hagen had a similar style, he actually "expected" bad shots...
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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Bolt said:
Isn't his swing in 3D though? Would think you would need some 3D numbers to be more accurate as to how the release is truly working and how the hub is moving.
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To observe the angle between the upper and lower pendulums, you only need pictures. Regardless of "how" or "why", great ball-strikers do not release the lower lever past the upper lever until after collision. Improve this element of the swing, and you almost surely improve the collision.
 
Steve Greffen

Steve Greffen

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So angles of the camera pictures don't matter and the fact that movements are happening in a "I repeat" a 3D motion don't matter? Like Kevin said, damn those pesky details.
 
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Kevin Shields

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Well, "Tom", that definition of rollover states the club be open entering impact and rolled closed. That isn't what he's doing at all. I don't know what the hell a push release is since no human can push thru impact and add to the clubhead so I'd say he's closer to a slap hinge with some more roll after impact. That is, if you must name each release.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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Cotton's classification includes those only three possible models (clubhead can stay square or rotate around vertical or horizontal axis - there is no other possibility) - but in reality, pure models occur extremely rarely but rather mixed types instead. Donald is definitely a mix of crossover and slap-hinge model.
Kevin - push release is entirely real and I wouldn't say Cotton wanted to say anuthing about adding after impact - I'd say the closest to the pure model was Trevino.

The golf instruction would need a new nomenclature for release phenomenon since Cotton's names are simply archaic, IMO. Moreover, it would be great to link the release types dependently on the whole action of the body.

Cheers
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Just asking....what evidence do you have that would indicate push release is real? When do you suggest that you can still push the clubhead and still have an effect?
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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Kevin Shields said:
Just asking....what evidence do you have that would indicate push release is real? When do you suggest that you can still push the clubhead and still have an effect?
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Perhaps I am making a critical mistake when not associating the name "push" with pushing the golf club per se. It could be that Cotton just saw/felt that the clubhead is being actually pushed.
However, when I am using the Cotton's terms I more do it to depict what the clubface does at the impact zone - e.g. Trevino's clubface stayed entirely square and without changing loft through the entire impact zone, while Donald's not.
Push release is real in the sense that it is possible to achieve that the clubface remains totally square to its arc in both vertical and horizontal axes.

Cheers
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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Brian Manzella said:
Obviously Cotton didn't have a 3D machine, or a Casio.
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Of course he did not have such tools and couldn't see that it is practically impossible to see the difference between the three releases observing the clubface between contact and separation. A well-timed slap-hinge or crossover looks exactly the same as push when one observe a slo-mo of the clubhead in the narrow impact zone.
I am of the opinion that his terms depict rather macroscale - e.g. when crossover is ill-timed the modern tool can see that the clubface is too open or too closed coming to the ball (provided it was not a goal of a golfer to hit the ball this way); when slap-hinge is ill-timed it allows to see the clubface reaching low point too early or too late (provided it was not a goal of a golfer this way).
What is interesting one can't see a justification for handle dragging so that he created a special term for it. Handle dragging would happen when the clubface is being delivered delofted and not letting the dynamic loft be square in horizontal axis even after separation. It seems he wouldn't treat this case as release at all.

Cheers
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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Bolt said:
So angles of the camera pictures don't matter and the fact that movements are happening in a "I repeat" a 3D motion don't matter? Like Kevin said, damn those pesky details.
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Everything "matters". I'm simply pointing out an important element of the release which is measurable.......with pictures. You know, like, the top of the D Plane, for example.
 
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