Moe Norman's one plane swing

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Mathew

Banned
Im getting to be a pretty reasonable striker these days.... Infact its due to this forum and its members I play a key role in guiding me to the truth and application of what a swing should look and feel like....

This is me about 5 months ago

http://www.webpost.net/go/Golfingstuff/Frontview.mov

Since then I've been tinkering about and and improved my stroke some more but since ive worked the nightshift and its early morning Im not uploading especially....
 
M

Mathew

Banned
quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

Mathew,

Do you always choke up on the grip that much?- looks like 2 inches of grip sticks out your left hand.

Archie
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On the shorter clubs up to mid iron (I think this is either 8 or 5 iron) - yup

My clubs heads are especially heavy and when I grip at the bottom of the grip, I find its extremely easy to find some bad habits due to tiredness during the latter part of a practice session....

Either that or its phychological and/or habit....

Don't nessesarily mind it though....
 
M

Mathew

Banned
quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by David Alford

The left arm and club are pretty much on the same plane. Look at impact and you'll see they are again on that same plane. I could draw one thick plane line from ball through the club, arms, and shoulder and it would show basically one plane. Skinny lines, show it's not perfect but guess what, there are no straight lines in the human body!

Guys, everything is relative.

[Bold by Holenone.]
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All this from the same guy who today posted the following under the topic Bobby Clampett Swing Analysis -- The Real Deal:

"This is where I'm coming from, and frankly even the stuff in TGM is not detailed enough for me. I guess I'm not talented enough to get by on "good enough". I need precise details, zero ambiguity, and 100% accuracy of instruction."
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Yoda is so cool ! [8D]:)
 
mgjordan

mgjordan

New
David,
I have posted videos before, both down the line and face on, but I am now back on 56k only and don't feel like spending the time to wait for a video to upload. I also don't have any webspace to post on. The best I am going to do is post some more pics of the swing changes I have made.

I don't think I was "jumping on you" at all. I never made any rude or mean spirited comments toward you. You presented incorrect opinions on the golf swing and you were called on them by myself and others. I simply responded to each of your statements. Because we disagree doesn't mean I was "jumping on you". We were debating...exactly what this forum is about. Posting our swing to see who's is better is going to turn into nothing more than a p*ssing contest. Being able to perform a golf swing has nothing to do with understanding it. If Tiger Woods says his left arm is on plane and a 20 handicap player says it isn't, the 20 handicap golfer would be correct even though his swing is no where near the quality of Tigers. Facts are facts regardless of who says them. I don't see what posting our swings has to do with this discussion. Your swing may be 100 times better than mine, Mathew's, holenone's, and Brians, but that still doesn't make you correct.
 
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dene

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

David...Moe Norman's multiple stroke components move on multiple planes....

PERIOD.

..he does make a good swing at it though ;)
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David is not alone with the "perception" of a single axis swing. Consider what Peter Jacobsen said in a recent interview,

"Jacobsen explained recent changes in his swing with the help of teacher Jim Hardy: "Jim took me from a kind of unreliable two-plane swing with more use of the arms and the reliance on tempo to more of a one-plane swing. Now I swing more behind my body and depend more on my turn. I'm not so dependent on my arms or tempo anymore."

In the process, he not only is a longer driver, but also a straighter driver. He said he also can do a better job of moving the ball right or left with the irons."

Question....is Jake ignorant about his own golf swing?

-Greg
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
dene....i dont know how much you watch the golf channel but it really is interesting when you watch the pros talk about themselves or when they give "playing lessons." Sometimes what they are doing and what they think they are doing are entirely two different things.

Just like us :)
 
M

Mathew

Banned
MG - Alford is just trying to change the subject because he knows he is on to a loser ....

Infact its just common sence - think of it - if the left arm is going to be 'on plane' the arm starts from the left shoulder, now could you ever see the shoulder ever getting to a line up the clubshaft.....

Hes lost the debate completely and now its - Show me your swing time ! - Chances are that everyone else on his list of wanted swings is a better striker but as far as swings go.... It is far from terrible....
 
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Matt Taylor

New
Hey Alford --

I'd like to see your response to Holenone's reposting of your contradicting posts. How can you defend your pressing TGMers for details and criticizing Homer for not being exact enough in his analysis of Clampett while you are really, really loose in your description of Moe's left arm and it's plane?

While I'm curious to see what your swing looks like, nothing else you attempt prove means much until you are consistent in your arguments.
 
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David Alford

New
MG wrote: <Your swing may be 100 times better than mine, Mathew's, holenone's, and Brians, but that still doesn't make you correct.>

Nor does saying I'm incorrect. You had your chance in the Bobby Clampett analysis and you haven't proven a single point other than you think a string is the same as a golf club.

Matthew, I stand my my comments. Analysis should be accurate. It is accurate to say Moe Norman "basically" has a single axis swing and that his arms and club "pretty much" make a single axis. Not as a machine can do, but as close as a human can do. Go to the forum http://www.network54.com/Forum/72052 and see if your opinion and Yoda's get a warm reception.

Keep working on your swing, you have potential.
 
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David Alford

New
OK, if you (and Holenone) are not going to post a video clip, why should I waste my time? I still don't know why Brian doesn't have a decent front angle on line. Holenone, were can I see your swing? Everyone here says you're the best, I wanna' see for myself.
 
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David Alford

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Hey Taylor, I just answered your question. You want some inane description like "well, according to my calculations, Moe Norman has an 88% single axis swing"?

Get real. You can say it's not a perfect single axis swing, but the only way you can quantify it further in a brief reply is with "loose" adjectives like "basically" or "pretty much".

Sorry, there is no alternative other than a multipage reply in which you give the club/arm/etc. angles and even then how in the heck can you put a statistical summation to it? You can't.
 
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David Alford

New
Matthew wrote:

>Hes lost the debate completely and now its - Show me your swing time ! - Chances are that everyone else on his list of wanted swings is a better striker>

Lost the debate completely? Have you completely lost your faculties? Why don't you go to Natural Golf, Todd Graves Academy, and the above mentioned forum and sue everyone for calling Moe's swing "single axis"?

Matter of fact, why don't you just go wander over to the single axis forum and tell everybody they're full of b.s.

As far as ball striking, I know your frustrated...sorry.
 
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dclaryjr

New
quote:Originally posted by dene
David is not alone with the "perception" of a single axis swing. Consider what Peter Jacobsen said in a recent interview,

"Jacobsen explained recent changes in his swing with the help of teacher Jim Hardy: "Jim took me from a kind of unreliable two-plane swing with more use of the arms and the reliance on tempo to more of a one-plane swing. Now I swing more behind my body and depend more on my turn. I'm not so dependent on my arms or tempo anymore."

In the process, he not only is a longer driver, but also a straighter driver. He said he also can do a better job of moving the ball right or left with the irons."

Question....is Jake ignorant about his own golf swing?

-Greg
Click to expand...

I'm a novice on the technical stuff here but I don't believe that "single axis" and "zero plane shift" are the same. Anyone??
 
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David Alford

New
Let's think about this for a minute. You could go to a Natural Golf School and then turn around and sue them for "bait and switch" tactics or "false representation". You thought you were going to get single axis instruction but instead only got "basically single axis instruction".

What judge wouldn't see things from your perspective? It would be a slam dunk.

Yeah, right.
 
rwh

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by dclaryjr

quote:Originally posted by dene
David is not alone with the "perception" of a single axis swing. Consider what Peter Jacobsen said in a recent interview,

"Jacobsen explained recent changes in his swing with the help of teacher Jim Hardy: "Jim took me from a kind of unreliable two-plane swing with more use of the arms and the reliance on tempo to more of a one-plane swing. Now I swing more behind my body and depend more on my turn. I'm not so dependent on my arms or tempo anymore."

In the process, he not only is a longer driver, but also a straighter driver. He said he also can do a better job of moving the ball right or left with the irons."

Question....is Jake ignorant about his own golf swing?

-Greg
Click to expand...

I'm a novice on the technical stuff here but I don't believe that "single axis" and "zero plane shift" are the same. Anyone??
Click to expand...

They are not the same in TGM terms. I believe Jack Kuykendall, the originator of Right-Way Golf and, later, Natural Golf, referred to Single Axis as the clubshaft and forearm in the same plane (the TGM Right Flying Wedge alignment).

Some apparently confuse that phrase with Zero Plane Shift, which is a totally different concept.
 
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David Alford

New
I assume backyard footage would not be satisfactory. Therefore, you may have to wait weeks until my equipment arrives and is set up. At any rate ONE person (Matthew)has submitted video footage. In retrospect, this was ill advised. Would you take a lesson on the golf swing from him?

Look, it's hard to swing the golf club well. It's especially hard to look good on video. I know that. I don't criticze my friends because they don't swing like a pro. Matter of fact, most pros don't look so hot on tape. But so far it looks like the TGM experts here are the ones who need lessons.
 
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6bee1dee

New
quote:Originally posted by David Alford

I assume backyard footage would not be satisfactory. Therefore, you may have to wait weeks until my equipment arrives and is set up. At any rate ONE person (Matthew)has submitted video footage. In retrospect, this was ill advised. Would you take a lesson on the golf swing from him?

Look, it's hard to swing the golf club well. It's especially hard to look good on video. I know that. I don't criticze my friends because they don't swing like a pro. Matter of fact, most pros don't look so hot on tape. But so far it looks like the TGM experts here are the ones who need lessons.
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Nobody is taking lessons from Matthew. We are in discussion with fellow members, like Matthew discussing TGM and learning from each other. A point you seem to miss. There is only one guru on this forum and another to listen too. You ain't neither. To think anyone would want you to view their swing is asinine. You an old man with bad parts so your swing mustlook the saddest of all. What is your handicap DLA?
 
A

Archie Swivel

New
quote:Originally posted by David Alford

I assume backyard footage would not be satisfactory. Therefore, you may have to wait weeks until my equipment arrives and is set up. At any rate ONE person (Matthew)has submitted video footage. In retrospect, this was ill advised. Would you take a lesson on the golf swing from him?
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Funny you asked. Actually I take from Brian, and he has helped me out tremendously. However, I posted my swing and Mathew ripped it apart, but what he said was correct and made me strive to eliminate my clubhead throwaway. Mathew also helped me in driving my right shoulder down and out. You can learn alot from these guys even if your not into TGM.

I'm not a devout TGM follower, mainly because its too technical for me and the book was purposely arranged to make you seek out an AI. But Brian's really good in person in getting you to accomplish things without telling you the technical thing you are accomplishing unless you want to hear it.

I was wandering, what exactly do you not agree with in this whole silly 'debate'?- The accuracy of scientific principals proffered by Homer Kelly or the notion that TGM is the bible of golf? I was hoping for some clarification of what your golf philosophy is and how it jives with TGM. Respectfully,

Archie
 
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