Ryan Smither
Super Moderator
Interesting thought. I hadn't seen this previously.
My new Plane Board
- Thread starter Todd Dugan
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Interesting thought. I hadn't seen this previously.
Chip Putterman
New
Come on, guys! This plane board can also be used as a picnic table.
alexandjacob
New
S
SteveT
Guest
Okay ... you can promote a 'swing plane' for a full-blooded golfswing ... but for a putting stroke ..????!!!!!! 
Todd Dugan
New
I'm just saying that I'm surprised that there was hardly a positive comment and several which questioned whether an adjustable plane board is useful at all. Tough crowd, I guess.
O.K., let me make a few points for the putting stroke on a plane as the most natural, repeatable, and best technique....
1. If you built the simplest machine to putt, with the putter inclined to the putter's lie angle, you would design it to swing in-plane, pendulum-style. It would work flawlessly, every time. Any other design would require more moving parts and would not be as simple.
2. The easiest, most natural way to swing your left arm back and through is to keep it at the same incline angle. You could do it with your eyes closed. The putter should simply be an extension of your left arm (until after impact, when it is an extension of your right arm).
3. If you were throwing a ball, with your arm somewhere between vertical and horizontal, in any sport, your arm will move an a plane.....an inclined plane. Could you imagine trying to throw a football by moving your hand directly over a straight line on the ground from you to your receiver? It's totally unnatural and you couldn't generate any force either.
4. A plane is straight and unwavering. Only a stroke on a plane sees the whole golf club follow a straight line.
5. It's what Jack and Tiger do.
Now if we're talking croquet, that's a different story. Or if your left forearm hung vertically naturally.................. But it doesn't. At least, mine doesn't.
You could just as easily use a laser pointer, strapped to the shaft of a club. The shaft will always point to the baseline of the plane it is moving on. A stroke on a plane will see the laser's mark trace a straight line on the ground. ONLY a stoke on a plane will trace a straight line on the ground. A so-called "straight back and straight through" stroke, when the shaft is inclined, will trace a CURVED line on the ground. Good luck doing THAT with your eyes closed.
softconsult
New
Todd, so you are excited about your Plane Board. You posted you picture of it, and now you are
lecturing to us about putting. Some of us are just skeptics.
I'm skeptical about the practical use of this thing. I'm actually skeptical about planes, or rather how you go about
using them to improve your swing. I've been on the PVC circle thing when it was all the rage. Not impressed.
I've watched Brian talking about how drawing lines on a video is pretty much useless. There are people with much
more knowledge than you that would disagree with your absolute statement about Nicklaus and Tiger.
So let us know if actually lowers your Putts per Round over the next year. Hope it does.
lecturing to us about putting. Some of us are just skeptics.
I'm skeptical about the practical use of this thing. I'm actually skeptical about planes, or rather how you go about
using them to improve your swing. I've been on the PVC circle thing when it was all the rage. Not impressed.
I've watched Brian talking about how drawing lines on a video is pretty much useless. There are people with much
more knowledge than you that would disagree with your absolute statement about Nicklaus and Tiger.
So let us know if actually lowers your Putts per Round over the next year. Hope it does.
mgranato
New
Be careful about "absolutes" when talking about the putter stroke, as well as what is universally "the natural" way to make a stroke. There are inclined plane strokes, vertical planed strokes, and inside-down-the-line strokes, etc. In either case, you either want the end of the shaft tracing a line or the sweetspot tracing a line - the two are not the same.
Regardless, you obviously prefer the inclined plane path. One of the negatives of using a plane board for training this type of stroke is that you are not training for the stroke you will use without the plane board. With a plane board, the golfer is training a stroke that rides along the surface by placing a bit of pressure "downward and inward" to keep the putter in contact with the board's surface. A completely different sensation than what you will use on the course.
Geoff has done some interesting research on how the brain/body interacts with these types of training devices - the results may surprise you.
now i see todd's response and explanation, here is my extra 2 cents.
first of all, kudos for going the extra mile to make something that you find helpful. most of us just talk about it so you are miles ahead. you took the initiative of doing something and finding it out. you put your theory to the test. and if this device works for you, what can we say!
may be i echo what others are thinking, but my basis of doubt is based on the one point of contention of the putting plane: is it slightly curved or straight (in the down the line view)? some us still believe that putting is on a straight line,,,some us still believe that putting is on a slight curve, that is, it goes slightly inside, then square, then inside again,,,,just like a regular swing for other clubs. for instance, many gadgets out there have this curve built in: the arc, the inside down the line, etc.
it seems yours does not have this curve built in (unless i am mistaken). brian's blue thingy in a way has this curve built in because it is short enough to allow some inside deviation, as it should be for regular swing, a point i have previously made.
did you build this plane board on purpose without this curve? (the catch 22 i think is that IF your putter shaft is indeed vertically positioned, which is not case, one can argue there is no curve, but your incline board suggests that you are positioned at the center of a radius and therefore you are drawing a circle and anything on the perimeter of a circle is not straight. of course, the said assertion is based on my assumption that a putting swing comes from the action of spine, not from other components)
(if my question makes you wonder how retarded my thinking is, please ignore it
first of all, kudos for going the extra mile to make something that you find helpful. most of us just talk about it so you are miles ahead. you took the initiative of doing something and finding it out. you put your theory to the test. and if this device works for you, what can we say!
may be i echo what others are thinking, but my basis of doubt is based on the one point of contention of the putting plane: is it slightly curved or straight (in the down the line view)? some us still believe that putting is on a straight line,,,some us still believe that putting is on a slight curve, that is, it goes slightly inside, then square, then inside again,,,,just like a regular swing for other clubs. for instance, many gadgets out there have this curve built in: the arc, the inside down the line, etc.
it seems yours does not have this curve built in (unless i am mistaken). brian's blue thingy in a way has this curve built in because it is short enough to allow some inside deviation, as it should be for regular swing, a point i have previously made.
did you build this plane board on purpose without this curve? (the catch 22 i think is that IF your putter shaft is indeed vertically positioned, which is not case, one can argue there is no curve, but your incline board suggests that you are positioned at the center of a radius and therefore you are drawing a circle and anything on the perimeter of a circle is not straight. of course, the said assertion is based on my assumption that a putting swing comes from the action of spine, not from other components)
(if my question makes you wonder how retarded my thinking is, please ignore it
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but the thing is that as long as the putter is on that board, it does not come inside. mind you,,,this is a board, not a ring. a ring will allow the putter to come inside. this board will not.
your second point is imo the key. as long as this device can help a person, that is what matters.
for instance, i have something similar at home for my kids. essentially my point is that for short putts, say, things under 8 feet, i tell my kids to, in their mind, keep the putter face square, anywhere along the putt. what happened previously is that they thought that the plane is inside-square-inside (which is correct), but no one is here to guide them how much inside is too inside, or how much inside is not enough inside, and because of that,,their erratic plane causes erratic club face angles, which i think is the sad reality for many putters with issues with putting. i repeat,,,their erratic putting plane leads to erratic club face alignment at impact. john daly said since he lost weight, he lost his belly to rest his elbow on to putt and therefore his putting was not as good. that is what i am talking about,,,erratic plane and face as a result.
so, we tried something else, that is, for shorter putt, forget about this so called natural physiological plane,,just putt "straight and straight". because of this thinking, their putter face is much more square than before and their putting has improved. is it so called scientific? not exactly, but it works better than before.
so how about longer putts, putts, say, 30 feet away? well, most people cannot make it anyway and distance control is the key, so i tell them to do whatever they like to do as long as the distance control is good. for example, todd's board will probably make my kids contact the ball more on the center of the face, so their long putts will hold the distance better. but for shorter putts, stay straight, at least for now.
similarly, based on what i have experienced with my kids, i think todd's board can help many people, particularly since the angle for the shaft can be adjusted to fit many different setups. however, my feeling is that if it works, it probably works better for shorter putts than longer putts based on the reason presented. really, it is the short putts that matters. we don't have to do well to do well. we do well if we do not screw up. isn't the stats for 6 footer for even pga guys just about 50%?
one thought they find particularly helpful, probably borrowed in some way from the inside-down-the-line product line is that when they finish a stroke, instead of thinking down the line, they think "club face square". honestly, i have no idea to what is the clubface square to, presumably to the intended path, but this attempt to hold the clubface square has helped. and if it helps, i am happy to stop intellectualizing further because i think putting is something that should remain as simple as we can.
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softconsult
New
"but the thing is that as long as the putter is on that board, it does not come inside"
Sure it comes inside. The thing is tilted. As the clubhead rises up the board it moves to the
inside if the heel of the putter is touching the board. But if it's touching the board, how exactly are
you going to make a smooth flowing stroke?
Sure it comes inside. The thing is tilted. As the clubhead rises up the board it moves to the
inside if the heel of the putter is touching the board. But if it's touching the board, how exactly are
you going to make a smooth flowing stroke?
hello softconsult, we just have to agree to disagree on this point then. his board, if it is a plain straight board cut off from a larger piece from a hardware store, into that rectangle, even at that inclined angle, does not allow his putter head to come into an "inside" path. his putter, anywhere on his swing in that video, is artificially controlled by the board to be facing the target line, always "squared".
there is no chance to come inside unless his board's perimeter is cut out as part of a circle.
that is why earlier i referred it as a ring, which his is not. so in a sense, when you truly want to come "inside", his board prevents that. relatively speaking, other than at impact, the rest of the time, his putter is actually "outside".
there is no chance to come inside unless his board's perimeter is cut out as part of a circle.
that is why earlier i referred it as a ring, which his is not. so in a sense, when you truly want to come "inside", his board prevents that. relatively speaking, other than at impact, the rest of the time, his putter is actually "outside".
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lookingtolearn
New
What is your definition of "inside?"
birly-shirly
New
Softconsult's description of the inside path is exactly the same as Stan Utley's.
I'm sure you could come more inside, though I'm not sure why you would want to groove that move.
I'm sure you could come more inside, though I'm not sure why you would want to groove that move.
actually not,,,look at how he demonstrates that in this video. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyZTWJUyKE0[/media]
he said, more or less, in order to swing on plane, the club head has to move in a curve. you see that when he demonstrates at about 30 secs.
todd's board does not have that curve, therefore does not allow that curve to the inside.
the curve we are talking about is not the angle of the board.
he said, more or less, in order to swing on plane, the club head has to move in a curve. you see that when he demonstrates at about 30 secs.
todd's board does not have that curve, therefore does not allow that curve to the inside.
the curve we are talking about is not the angle of the board.
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lookingtolearn
New
Yes it is. Utley's training aid is a plane board.
birly-shirly
New
@golfdad - well, I guess we also have to agree to differ on what Stan is saying.
when he says you swing the shaft on the plane, I envisage something very like Todd's board.
If you attached a very sharp saw to the sole of Todd's putter, it would cut a curved path in his plane board.
when he says you swing the shaft on the plane, I envisage something very like Todd's board.
If you attached a very sharp saw to the sole of Todd's putter, it would cut a curved path in his plane board.
softconsult
New
Golfdad, how can you watch that video and disagree that the inclined plane brings the
clubhead inside? Sometimes it is helpful to take an extreme example to prove the point.
Take Todd's plane board and tilt it to 30 degrees up from the floor. Now trace the putterhead along the board. Moves inside. Only way it doesn't is if the board is perpendicular to the level floor.
clubhead inside? Sometimes it is helpful to take an extreme example to prove the point.
Take Todd's plane board and tilt it to 30 degrees up from the floor. Now trace the putterhead along the board. Moves inside. Only way it doesn't is if the board is perpendicular to the level floor.
i know utley will certainly cut a path on todd's boad since his swing going inside will be hampered by the board. please look at utley's club head path when he swings in that video. he probably exaggerates to make his point. that kind of curve traveled by his clubhead cannot be done on todd's board.
listen, i am just wasting time to say A is A, B is B. as i said earlier, to each his own,,whatever works works.
whereas utley's assertion makes perfect sense to me, in reality, when applying it to my kids, the outcome is poor. when they think more along the todd's board, straight to straight, it works better. may be one day soon they realize they are manipulating the club to keep it straight,,,we will deal with it then!
birly-shirly
New
no worries golfdad - as you say, whatever works.
but...have you got a copy of utley's book? I still think you and I have different views of how Stan wants the putter to swing. At the risk of being proved wrong in my understanding, I could dig out my copy at home if this is going to be useful...
but...have you got a copy of utley's book? I still think you and I have different views of how Stan wants the putter to swing. At the risk of being proved wrong in my understanding, I could dig out my copy at home if this is going to be useful...
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