My new Plane Board

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golfdad

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softconsult,,,here is my suggestion:

try swing around a ring and then try swing along this tilted board,,,then you will see what i am trying to convey. and i think that is utley's point: no segment on a curve is straight.

so if i have to modify todd's invention to fit a golfer who wants to putt the way utley's suggestions, then i will bend the board so that it is slightly convex toward the ball.

how convex? i don't know. if i know i will not be here:)
 
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birly-shirly

New
@Todd - I just looked up The Putting Arc's website and realised that you've got your putter on the wrong side of your plane board!

Good idea to make it adjustable though...
 
G

golfdad

New
birly-shirly said:
no worries golfdad - as you say, whatever works.

but...have you got a copy of utley's book? I still think you and I have different views of how Stan wants the putter to swing. At the risk of being proved wrong in my understanding, I could dig out my copy at home if this is going to be useful...
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no, i don't have his book, but have read it from a friend.

as i said earlier to softconsult,,,imagine or experiment a little, find a ring that fits the same shaft angle like todd's board and putt on it.....

i humbly submit that it is not the same thing! :)

and this point is particularly obvious if one's putting control comes from the spine.

got to go,,catch you guys later!
 
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lookingtolearn

New
golfdad said:
softconsult,,,here is my suggestion:

try swing around a ring and then try swing along this tilted board,,,then you will see what i am trying to convey. and i think that is utley's point: no segment on a curve is straight.

so if i have to modify todd's invention to fit a golfer who wants to putt the way utley's suggestions, then i will bend the board so that it is slightly convex toward the ball.

how convex? i don't know. if i know i will not be here:)
Click to expand...

You would not have to modify Todd's plane board to putt the way Utley suggests. Todd and Utley are saying the exact same thing. If the board is on an angle, in order to putt on that angle ("on plane"), the board must be straight, not curved.
 
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Jay845

New
Haven't read the entire thread, just looked at the OP. Based on this, here are my thoughts.

Brian used to promote "The Sheriff" as a great putting aid on this site (don't see it mentioned in the equipment or training aids section anymore). For those that don't know what it is:
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/...g-new-putting-training-aid-now-available.html

I realize there are differences between the OP's plane board and "THe Sheriff" but as a training it would seem to me that there is some usefulness for it.

Thoughts?
 
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softconsult

New
You are mixing up plane and path. The plane is a flat surface, it is not convex or concave.

In Utleys book he demonstrates an easy and inexpensive curved training aid. Take a metal yardstick to the
green. Stand it on edge. Place a tee in the center on the golfers side. Pull each end in about 1 1/2" and
secure with a tee. Now you have a curve to use for training the arc. Pretty funny actually. He says that
there is no need to spend money on training aid, then at the end of the book there is a promo for "The Learning Curve" which he developed with Eye-Line Golf Co. Obviously came after the book was written.

I confess that after decades of being a pretty good putter using a straight back and straight through method, I
got Utley's book and worked all of 2009 on this new stroke. It just was not for me. I got a Taylormade, Itsy Bitsy Spider, high MOI putter at the start of 2010, and went back to my old method with the addition of some Mangum ideas. Works much better for me.

I do agree with you that the path, arc, he demonstrates would crash into and through the plane board.
At least I think I do. Making my head hurt thinking about it.
 
L

lookingtolearn

New
softconsult said:
You are mixing up plane and path. The plane is a flat surface, it is not convex or concave.

In Utleys book he demonstrates an easy and inexpensive curved training aid. Take a metal yardstick to the
green. Stand it on edge. Place a tee in the center on the golfers side. Pull each end in about 1 1/2" and
secure with a tee. Now you have a curve to use for training the arc. Pretty funny actually. He says that
there is no need to spend money on training aid, then at the end of the book there is a promo for "The Learning Curve" which he developed with Eye-Line Golf Co. Obviously came after the book was written.

I confess that after decades of being a pretty good putter using a straight back and straight through method, I
got Utley's book and worked all of 2009 on this new stroke. It just was not for me. I got a Taylormade, Itsy Bitsy Spider, high MOI putter at the start of 2010, and went back to my old method with the addition of some Mangum ideas. Works much better for me.

I do agree with you that the path, arc, he demonstrates would crash into and through the plane board.
At least I think I do. Making my head hurt thinking about it.
Click to expand...

Utley prefers a flatter angle than what most consider standard, therefore his putter head would come more inside. Just something else to make your head hurt. :)
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

New
softconsult said:
Todd, so you are excited about your Plane Board. You posted you picture of it, and now you are
lecturing to us about putting. Some of us are just skeptics.

I'm skeptical about the practical use of this thing. I'm actually skeptical about planes, or rather how you go about
using them to improve your swing. I've been on the PVC circle thing when it was all the rage. Not impressed.
I've watched Brian talking about how drawing lines on a video is pretty much useless. There are people with much
more knowledge than you that would disagree with your absolute statement about Nicklaus and Tiger.

So let us know if actually lowers your Putts per Round over the next year. Hope it does.
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"Lecturing"? No, CONTRIBUTING.

Tiger, Jack, and virtually every great putter swings the clubhead on an inclined, circular arc. That's not my "opinion". I have more than enough video to prove it.

How do you know who has more knowledge than me? Do you even know me? Stan Utley, for one, promotes an "arcing" stroke on a plane. Pretty much everybody does, except Pelz.

It can be difficult to grasp the plane concept. If you want to learn more, I have a bunch of videos here:
Maximum Impact Golf - Putting
 
J

Jay845

New
Jay845 said:
Haven't read the entire thread, just looked at the OP. Based on this, here are my thoughts.

Brian used to promote "The Sheriff" as a great putting aid on this site (don't see it mentioned in the equipment or training aids section anymore). For those that don't know what it is:
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/...g-new-putting-training-aid-now-available.html

I realize there are differences between the OP's plane board and "THe Sheriff" but as a training it would seem to me that there is some usefulness for it.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Don't want this to get lost in the thread.
Thoughts?
 
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softconsult

New
Don't I know. Bought a Scotty Cameron Red X. Then, following Utley's advice drove
90 miles to have the thing bent flat to 68 degrees, only to discover later that my local Dick's Sporting Goods
had the Putter Lie/Loft Machine.
 
S

SteveT

Guest
Obese golfers tend to have an arcing putting stroke that follows the outline of their bellies ... did ya ever notice that .... :D
 
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lookingtolearn

New
Jay845 said:
Haven't read the entire thread, just looked at the OP. Based on this, here are my thoughts.

Brian used to promote "The Sheriff" as a great putting aid on this site (don't see it mentioned in the equipment or training aids section anymore). For those that don't know what it is:
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/...g-new-putting-training-aid-now-available.html

I realize there are differences between the OP's plane board and "THe Sheriff" but as a training it would seem to me that there is some usefulness for it.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The Sheriff uses the same concept as a plane board. A problem with using a plane board is that the resistance is to the inside. When you remove the board, the putter head will want to come more inside. The Sheriff eliminates this by placing resistance on BOTH sides, with the goal being to have as little resistance as possible on either side.

The problem I've encountered with the Sheriff is the added weight of the block that you attach to the putter. The severity of the weight as well as the unbalanced placement of it throws everything off for me. It is difficult for me to duplicate the motion trained once the block is removed. I also have problems regaining feel once the weight is gone. I think if I could find something similar to the wooden block that is super lightweight and balanced on both sides, it would work better.

Of course, these problems may not happen with everyone.
 
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B

birly-shirly

New
lookingtolearn said:
Why do you think it's on the wrong side?
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Slightly tongue-in-cheek - but Todd's model plane coincides with the shaft plane at address. The Putting Arc defines the "proper" plane as ball to neck, which is steeper than the shaft plane and, in the form of a plane board, would need to lie outside the putter head. Placed to the inside of the putter head, the plane board could only be a few inches high to let the shaft clear it higher up where it crosses the plane board.

It does raise the question of whether you really want to work that hard on grooving a stroke based on a swing plane defined by reference to the shaft plane. YMMV.
 
G

golfdad

New
hold off throwing eggs my way,,,haha,,,after reviewing what some of you have said, i stand corrected. you guys are absolutely right that todd's plane is indeed what utley was talking about. as softconsult has pointed out, the incline made all the difference.

a deep bow,,,
 
L

lookingtolearn

New
birly-shirly said:
Slightly tongue-in-cheek - but Todd's model plane coincides with the shaft plane at address. The Putting Arc defines the "proper" plane as ball to neck, which is steeper than the shaft plane and, in the form of a plane board, would need to lie outside the putter head. Placed to the inside of the putter head, the plane board could only be a few inches high to let the shaft clear it higher up where it crosses the plane board.

It does raise the question of whether you really want to work that hard on grooving a stroke based on a swing plane defined by reference to the shaft plane. YMMV.
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I see.

You do raise a good point though. There are many different planes you could use (if you even want an "on plane" stroke). YES! golf has a plane board that is higher than the shaft angle (based on setup and shoulder movement I believe) and it is used by quite a few tour pros.
 
S

SteveT

Guest
The putting stroke is a free-flowing, gravity-assisted pendular swing ... according to Geoff Mangum .... and any training restraint will negate the bio-neuro-muscular activities related to brain-hand-arm messaging and feedback.

IOW ... a plane board for the putting stroke is nonsense .... and only good to tell you if your putter lie is proper at address. But why use a clumsy board when all you need do is have somebody tell you if your putter sole is toe-high, heel-high or perfectly level ??
 
B

birly-shirly

New
SteveT said:
The putting stroke is a free-flowing, gravity-assisted pendular swing ... according to Geoff Mangum .... and any training restraint will negate the bio-neuro-muscular activities related to brain-hand-arm messaging and feedback.

IOW ... a plane board for the putting stroke is nonsense .... and only good to tell you if your putter lie is proper at address. But why use a clumsy board when all you need do is have somebody tell you if your putter sole is toe-high, heel-high or perfectly level ??
Click to expand...

Well - I don't have a plane board. But if I did, and if I also had either a pronounced inward backswing path, or a SBST path that I wanted to be rid of, or a loop in transition, I can see how using a plane board adjustable to close to vertical, would help me BEGIN to find the right positions in my stroke.

Isn't there a long and honorable tradition of, literally, hands-on teaching in golf? Of maneuvering the student so that they FEEL where they need to be, so that they can then begin to find those positions in a "free" swing?
 
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