Natalie Gulbis' swing, and many other things

[Todd Dugan]

Creamer's swing is admired because she keeps the shaft parallel to her impact plane in the upper region of the swing.....in "modern" terms, "on plane". Reminiscent of Hogan, actually. Gulbis shifts to a prominently rightward plane at the top (across the line). Nothing special there. Now her body on the other hand......

 

[lia41985]

Across the line?! Rightward plane shift?! Her thoracic spine is unbelievably flexible! If your upper spine is that flexible and your right shoulder blade has that kind of range of motion in retracting where "should" the club point? Again, look at the MATT video...

This picture shows just how far she can retract her shoulders:

These face-on pictures shows how flexible she is in rotating her upper thoracic spine:
http://www.golf.com/golf/gallery/article/0,28242,1661088-3,00.html
Also:

"I had never seen her play but heard she had the most unusual swing in the world," Harmon recalled. "I was more curious to see it than anything else. Then when I did, I couldn't believe what I saw. I've never seen a person at the top of the swing have their right elbow on the other side of the ball. It was on the front side of the ball. Because she has an extra vertebra in her back, she can screw herself into the ground with her turn. Her head was facing straight backwards (away from the target) and yet her right elbow was on the other side of the ball."

From: http://www.lpga.com/content_1.aspx?pid=5957&mid=2

 

[lia41985]

If she has such a good kinetic chain snap, why is she so short? What makes for length?

If you think her hands are flipping view 1:34-1:45 in the MATT video.

 

[lia41985]

Creamer's swing is admired because she keeps the shaft parallel to her impact plane in the upper region of the swing.....in "modern" terms, "on plane". Reminiscent of Hogan, actually. Gulbis shifts to a prominently rightward plane at the top (across the line). Nothing special there. Now her body on the other hand......

There's the Hogan/Fowler/Garcia/McIlroy/Creamer "way" and there's the Nicklaus/Watson/Calcavecchia/Toms/Gulbis "way" per Brian's research findings.

 

[ScottRob]

I guess I am not as well educated on the function of her form. In person it (certainly not she) looks like shite! Compared to a great many LPGA players she hits is like shite too! Short and crooked...did not putt particularly well and through a couple of hissies...all in the same round. It looks like the clubs swing her. Maybe an off week.

 

[lia41985]

One have indeed some golfer's make a brisk upward vertical move, standing up on their toes through impact...This particular action is now known with the fancy name of parametric acceleration since Miura's paper got more wide spread known in golf. But it was known before as shortening the swing radius.

With this in mind, watch 1:52-1:60 in the MATT video--a clue about why Gulbis has a great swing.

 

[footwedge]

Disregarding all the idiosyncrasies and the look of the Gulbis swing, why is she a short hitter? If she has all the trademarks of a "great swing" where's the power leak? Or is there a lack of power, maybe she's getting the most out of what she has, idea's? Is it a lot of motion/work that doesn't get to the club to produce clubhead speed or is the timing off or...?

 

[Richie3Jack]

I still don't get it. If she was very precise and accurate (by LPGA standards), I could see. If she was super long by LPGA standards, I could see. And she has recently had back surgery at the age of 26. From what I've been told, doctors try to avoid back surgery for people at all costs, unless they absolutely need it. And she's having it at 26 years old?





3JACK

 

[gmbtempe]

Her swing is not very good, its unique for sure but technically sound its not.

I figured this was a "look at Natalie Gulbis" threads, never thought of her swing as elite.

 

[JHodge]

pivot

Just my opinion. Generally speaking, lesser players over use the body and alot of people who cant really play think the pivot adds to the club and try to power their swings with the pivot. The best players have soooooo much hand and arm action. For some insane reason hands get a bad rep in some circles.

"wallop the ball with your pivot" - Brian. What about blasting the left arm off the chest?

 

[Kevin Shields]

"wallop the ball with your pivot" - Brian. What about blasting the left arm off the chest?

Pivot just assists arm swing, you're not bashing the ball with your body.

"Wallop the ball with you pivot" is an anti flipper thing from the video. But I really dont want to speak for Brian. Good players swing their shoulders, arms and hands with a little assist from the body pivot. When you see a very dynamic pivot, how much of that do you think is actually getting to the clubhead?

 

[lia41985]

It looks like the clubs swing her.

There are a few parallels between swinging a golf club and throwing a hammer, so this isn't necessarily a bad thing--not to say your assertion is true.

 

[self-mastery]

If she has such a good kinetic chain snap, why is she so short? What makes for length?

If you think her hands are flipping view 1:34-1:45 in the MATT video.

He's not saying that she's flipping, but there's noway that she is optimized for distance. NG and kinetic chain snap do not go together. She powder puffs the ball because she has more of a 'pusher' type swing. Longer hitters put on the brakes, and dump the club face into the ball (K-C-Snap).

How can someone with powder puff distance ever have a good kinetic chain snap???

Look at my avatar pic to see an LPGA player that knows how to snap her chain

 

[self-mastery]

Pivot just assists arm swing, you're not bashing the ball with your body.

"Wallop the ball with you pivot" is an anti flipper thing from the video. But I really dont want to speak for Brian. Good players swing their shoulders, arms and hands with a little assist from the body pivot. When you see a very dynamic pivot, how much of that do you think is actually getting to the clubhead?

Kevin, I agree! I'm starting to believe that a dynamic pivot simply puts a golfer in the proper sequence, and position to violently sling their arms.

For example, how many long players have rotary motions with a hogan type of exit move through impact?

Does the BM Academy still believe in accel/decel'ing and pivot stall for power?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Kevin, I agree! I'm starting to believe that a dynamic pivot simply puts a golfer in the proper sequence, and position to violently sling their arms.

For example, how many long players have rotary motions with a hogan type of exit move through impact?

Does the BM Academy still believe in accel/decel'ing and pivot stall for power?

Maybe the terms are incorrect, but it has to stop or decel, or just slow down for the arms to swing, even if they are swinging themselves with the aid of some flow of kinetic energy. If you pivot all the way to the end it just wont be as powerful because you'll lack arm swing. In contrast, if you pivot insufficiently or over accel you'll die too soon and spend your arm swing before impact.

 

[footwedge]

I don't see Gulbis as having a "great swing". Compared to who?, her peers on tour or what? I think you are off on this one, all those pics can't make her swing great no matter how bad you want to believe it. Unless your definition of great has a lower standard than most people's definition of "great".

Of all the LPGA tour golfers why would you pick Gulbis as your standard of greatness in a swing, mind boggling.

 

[lia41985]

Guys,
I'm glad that you all have given this some thought even if we disagree--I simply wanted to generate a discussion and bounce ideas off of one another. I've used this thread to say that there's a lot of great elements in this swing and there's a lot to learn from it about what to do to get your golf swing performing better. I direct you all to really pay attention to the 1:23-1:46 bit from the MATT video. Look at what the club is doing from 1:23-1:27. Look what her body is doing from 1:31-1:46 to accomplish that. Look at the "feel/real" sequence from 1:51-1:59 where she confirms what her mind feels and her body does during her swing. If I can get you all to devote your time, 27 seconds in all, in this way I am happy.

 

[footwedge]

Guys,
I'm glad that you all have given this some thought even if we agree--I simply wanted to generate a discussion and bounce ideas off of one another. I've used this thread to say that there's a lot of great elements in this swing and there's a lot to learn from it about what to do to get your golf swing performing better. I direct you all to really pay attention to the 1:23-1:46 bit from the MATT video. Look at what the club is doing from 1:23-1:27. Look what her body is doing from 1:31-1:46 to accomplish that. Look at the "feel/real" sequence from 1:51-1:59 where she confirms what her mind feels and her body does during her swing. If I can get you all to devote your time, 27 seconds in all, in this way I am happy.

I guess you didn't watch Brian's video.

 

[self-mastery]

I guess you didn't watch Brian's video.

 

[Brian Manzella]

"wallop the ball with your pivot" - Brian. What about blasting the left arm off the chest?

The Pivot is spending 70-75% of its power moving itself.

The shoulder complex, arms, and hands are way more responsible for power than we were told to believe.

Now....

As for the Natalie Gulbis swing...

Her right shoulder movement is perfect for here eventual plane, but here hand path is CONVEX.

Looks like a good swing that could be better.