For those that need to swing "more" left, the advantage is being in the middle of the green vs. missing the green to the left. Or just "aim" more right and play the draw.
It's more of a path issue, not so much a face issue.
Natalie Gulbis' swing, and many other things
- Thread starter lia41985
- Start date
- Status
For those that need to swing "more" left, the advantage is being in the middle of the green vs. missing the green to the left. Or just "aim" more right and play the draw.
It's more of a path issue, not so much a face issue.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Who said anything about not swinging left? What does that have to do with anything?
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
I have a feeling you think it isn't.
Richie3Jack
New
Let's say you want a path at 0* to the target or close to it. In order to do that, you need to get on a swing plane that will allow for that 0* path. 'Swinging Left' keeps the golfer on the plane necessary to get a 0* path.
The problem many golfers have is that they inevitably start off with an over the top slice. They then start 'swinging out to right field' and eventually they start getting a path that goes right of the target. Sometimes this will lead to a path too far out to the right (say, +5 or more degrees). So they need to learn to 'swing left' in order to get that path back more to square.
Or the worst.....a golfer with a +2* to the right path, hits a snap hook. They will get pissed and say 'stop coming over the top!' And in order to avoid the over the top move, even though their path is actually out to the right of the target, they'll 'swing out to right field' and now just promote a hook even more. The simple solution was to fix the clubface.
I think swinging left *can* promote face stability. One of things though is how you 'swing left.' I was doing it more or less by 'sucking my hands and arms in' which was really cheating it and the rate of closure would be very high.
3JACK
Richie3Jack
New
Not trying to start anything here, but what do these stats tell us? That he couldn't putt? His lifetime scoring scoring average was around 71.3 so he couldn't have been too bad. In fact, if you play for 11 years on the big tour and win you can obviously roll your golf ball a little bit.
what is a hands players anyway? A guy like Lucas Glover, Sergio, Fowler, or a guy like Barr, Ray Floyd or Hubert Green?
I think the stats show us that for a period of time Barr was an excellent ballstriker and probably a much better irons player than a driver. He had some really good total driving years, some below average years as well. I just looked up the stats (which go from when Barr was 28 to 40 years old) because I always remember Barr being known as more of a ballstriker than a short game wiz. But I wasn't sure, so I wanted to find out. I think he probably had a solid overall game, but was more of a ballstriker by judging those stats (if he was a good putter and had those stats in his best years, he would've been a player of the year type golfer).
I think *some* Tour player's putting is vastly overrated and I think the great putters on the Tour are more streaky than anything...but when they are on, it's a sight to behold. I think where the PGA Tour players are typically much better than the rest of the public, including the mini-tour guys...is from 175-250 yards away.
3JACK
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The Straight Ball is Easier. There, I said it.
I can't speak for Gregg. Ask Gregg.
I can speak for me.
A ZERO RESULTANT PATH on shots off of the ground REQUIRES a swing direction—plane line—base line—HSP. to the left.
The Left.
You HAVE TO SWING TO THE LEFT OF THE TARGET to hit straight shots off of the ground.
That means—by default—that DURING THE SWING, the CLUBFACE HAS TO be less closed TO THE SWING than a "push draw" golfer.
Surely, the "push drawers" can have a strong grip or something else that gets THEIR REQUIRED MORE CLOSED TO THE SWING DIRECTION CLUBFACE more closed. SOmething besides "hand action."
But, to keep hitting these "push draws" right at the target, they have to have DIFFERENT AMOUNTS OF CLOSED TO THE PATH—and closed to the plane!!—throughout the progression from wedge to 3-wood.
So, I think, for most golfers, the STRAIGHT BALL IS EASIER TO DO.
Just have the face SQUARE at impact, and swing left the correct amount.
Period.
This REQUIRES A CLUBFACE that is OPEN TO THE PLANE at impact.
Which for most is LESS "hand action."
Have a nice day.
I can't speak for Gregg. Ask Gregg.
I can speak for me.
A ZERO RESULTANT PATH on shots off of the ground REQUIRES a swing direction—plane line—base line—HSP. to the left.
The Left.
You HAVE TO SWING TO THE LEFT OF THE TARGET to hit straight shots off of the ground.
That means—by default—that DURING THE SWING, the CLUBFACE HAS TO be less closed TO THE SWING than a "push draw" golfer.
Surely, the "push drawers" can have a strong grip or something else that gets THEIR REQUIRED MORE CLOSED TO THE SWING DIRECTION CLUBFACE more closed. SOmething besides "hand action."
But, to keep hitting these "push draws" right at the target, they have to have DIFFERENT AMOUNTS OF CLOSED TO THE PATH—and closed to the plane!!—throughout the progression from wedge to 3-wood.
So, I think, for most golfers, the STRAIGHT BALL IS EASIER TO DO.
Just have the face SQUARE at impact, and swing left the correct amount.
Period.
This REQUIRES A CLUBFACE that is OPEN TO THE PLANE at impact.
Which for most is LESS "hand action."
Have a nice day.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
And for those who think my interpretation of using the hands in the swing means a "handsy" release or using them for sqaring the face with roll, that isnt what I mean at all.
gmbtempe
New
This is really good and I agree with it completely.
Question though, while the push drawer has to change the amount the face is closed to keep hitting the same push draw, with the method you describe does the player need to vary how much left they swing for say a wedge versus a 5 iron? I would think yes because you hit down at different degrees? Could you swing the same amount left but vary the ball position?
duckjr78
New
IIRC, the change in VSP from club to club almost balances out the left aim/swing for the different amounts of down for each club.
For me, I have to aim/swing approx 7 yards to the left of my actual target on all full shots hit off the turf (or a really low tee).
duckjr78
New
Richie,
You say that you were "cheating it" by sucking your hands and arms in to swing left. How would you suggest doing it right?
Thanks, Brian! I feel that your comments provide a lot more helpful information that I can actually use than GPM1985's comments.
rmartingolf
New
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Outside-in to what?
Richie3Jack
New
Hi Brian, why does the face need to be closed to the plane to hit a push draw?
Amounts that are also different?
I quite enjoy teaching a push draw but will also teach patterns to produce straight and even pull fades, variety is the spice of life after all.
Last edited:
Richie3Jack
New
What you're thinking....no.
Generally it means the path will be square, bottom arc will be left of the target.
3JACK
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Why the golf club has to to be closed to the plane to hit a draw at the target.
Ok, here we go...
If you have a Straight at the Target HSP/Plane Line/Direction of Swing/base line, and do a certain angle of attack, a resultant path that is 4° inside-out, it is 4° inside-out to the plane line.
So, the face would have to be about ~2.5° open to the target at impact to make the ball go "in the hole" so-to-speak.
So what?
So this.....
As you look down at the RESULTANT PATH, if the face would be SQAURE to the RESULTANT PATH, that face in this example would also be 4° open, and produce a straight push.
So....
This 4° open clubface is also SQUARE TO THE PLANE, like "angled hinge" action.
So....
The 2.5° open clubface is not.
It is NOT "cutting through the plane."
It is closed to the plane.
And of course, it has to be slightly differently closed through the set, to a given HSP, to produce shots at the target....for a variety of reasons.
Ok, here we go...
If you have a Straight at the Target HSP/Plane Line/Direction of Swing/base line, and do a certain angle of attack, a resultant path that is 4° inside-out, it is 4° inside-out to the plane line.
So, the face would have to be about ~2.5° open to the target at impact to make the ball go "in the hole" so-to-speak.
So what?
So this.....
As you look down at the RESULTANT PATH, if the face would be SQAURE to the RESULTANT PATH, that face in this example would also be 4° open, and produce a straight push.
So....
This 4° open clubface is also SQUARE TO THE PLANE, like "angled hinge" action.
So....
The 2.5° open clubface is not.
It is NOT "cutting through the plane."
It is closed to the plane.
And of course, it has to be slightly differently closed through the set, to a given HSP, to produce shots at the target....for a variety of reasons.
- Status