New Development in Golf Instruction - YUCK!

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bray

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Michael Jacobs said:
Below Plane Syndrome

You try to swing down and out to the inside corner....

You beat your slice add a little swivel and finally shoot in the 80's

You continue doing what you are doing - directing the club out to right field

You shoot under 80 for the first time......

You keep at -- start to develop some push and pulls -- iron play becomes erratic

You think you need stiffer clubs

A good round could be good and a bad round awful - makes you want to take up badmitton

You start hooking and pushing drivers, you see hits off the toe and off the heel -- You start to think that you are not going inside enough -- down and out more to equal the forward.........

You end up with a wedge game with no spin and a Lie / loft machine at your bedside

You come take a lesson from Brian or myself and we show you how to draw a striaght plane line and you feel like........... well it all feels different to everybody -- to me back in the day it felt like i was trying to hit sand shot -- looked up and Brian said wow you look like david toms
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Mike....I agree with all the symptoms described for Below Plane Syndrome....however a good teacher knows how to convey the message of swinging right or down and out so that the student doesn't get below plane.

Down and out or swinging right is the feel, the teacher must also teach the alignment so the student understands what they are looking for, a good way to do this is showing the student video and using the tec mat, it's not the only way you can also show the student what the proper follow through should look like. That's the beauty of teaching TGM......using technology or not!!!

Sorting Through the Circuit Player's Handbook.

B-Ray
 
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B

bray

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Tom Bartlett said:
Bray

He didn't say the machines were junk. He sad trying to swing so far to the right is junk.
He said about the machines, that until an industry standard is used, comparing numbers (from one machine to another) is useless.
Click to expand...

Tom,

You're right....Brian did not say the machine was J-U-N-K....he said trying to swing that far right is junk, but 6 degrees inside out goes along with some really good video.....so swinging that far right on a TEK machine is not
J-U-N-K, now on another machine it may be.

Sorting Through the Golf Nut's Catalog.

B-Ray
 
B

bray

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By the way.....I do have respect for all three of you guys...Tom, Mike, and Brian....and all the work in golf instruction you've done.

Sorting Through the Duffer's Bible.

B-Ray
 
C

Cope

New
Familiar

Industry standard for machines needs to be accurate as far as real ball flight rules. What actually makes the ball do what it does. Like Brian, I used one of the early ones that said I was snap hooking when I was hitting a "closed" face low pull cut. I had not seen a ball go left in a long time after overcoming the "bps" that Michael talks about in his post above. I did not take the step Brian did of trying to figure out what numbers I needed to make the machine show to hit my shot. I just stopped using the machine.
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

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To my knowledge, this is where this "right field" stuff came from:

Low point of the clubhead orbit is in front and OUTSIDE of the ball. So after hitting the ball, the clubhead doesn't go back IN as 90%+ golfers think it should. It should keep going down, OUT and forward.

In order to get some golfers to make sure they direct force down and OUT until low point, telling them to swing more to the right may be great advice.

Remember, you can bastardise anything...including the NSA and NHA patterns :rolleyes:
 
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B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Yup.

tongzilla said:
... you can bastardise anything...
Click to expand...

Including The Golfing Machine.

Which is where the MANZELLA MATRIX comes in.

Tom Bartlett said:
He didn't say the machines were junk. He sad trying to swing so far to the right is junk.

He said about the machines, that until an industry standard is used, comparing numbers (from one machine to another) is useless.
Click to expand...

Thank Goodness for Tom.

BRay said:
Tom,

You're right....Brian did not say the machine was J-U-N-K....he said trying to swing that far right is junk, but 6 degrees inside out goes along with some really good video.....so swinging that far right on a TEK machine is not
J-U-N-K, now on another machine it may be.
Click to expand...

Why didn't you say as much in your first response. ;)
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

New
tongzilla said:
To my knowledge, this is where this "right field" stuff came from:

Low point of the clubhead orbit is in front and OUTSIDE of the ball. So after hitting the ball, the clubhead doesn't go back IN as 90%+ golfers think it should. It should keep going down, OUT and forward.

In order to get some golfers to make sure they direct force down and OUT until low point, telling them to swing more to the right may be great advice.

Remember, you can bastardise anything...including the NSA and NHA patterns :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm sure Mandrin can do the maths - but if the ball position is , for example 3-4 inches back of low point, and low point is on the same inclined plane as impact , then even with a flattish inclined plane the outward movement of the clubhead past impact must be pretty minor...an inch out to right field?

Some teacher's say 11 degress out to right field.... At least 11 degrees pre impact.... once impact occurs the clubface has only inches to travel to low point and then it turns up and inwards....

What do you think of this Brian?
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

New
golfbulldog said:
I'm sure Mandrin can do the maths - but if the ball position is , for example 3-4 inches back of low point, and low point is on the same inclined plane as impact , then even with a flattish inclined plane the outward movement of the clubhead past impact must be pretty minor...an inch out to right field?
Click to expand...
Yup, the circle is very large relative to arc at impact. But we're talking about people who swing WAY to the left. To these people, it looks very right field.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
golfbulldog said:
Some teacher's say 11 degress out to right field.... At least 11 degrees pre impact.... once impact occurs the clubface has only inches to travel to low point and then it turns up and inwards....

What do you think of this Brian?
Click to expand...

If you are a STONE SLICER, it can't hurt.

Other than that...it is just WRONG.

Mandrin...you draw some lines and I'll draw some lines, and maybe we can put this CRAP to rest.
 
J

jbrunk

New
Michael Jacobs said:
Below Plane Syndrome

You try to swing down and out to the inside corner....

You beat your slice add a little swivel and finally shoot in the 80's

You continue doing what you are doing - directing the club out to right field

You shoot under 80 for the first time......

You keep at -- start to develop some push and pulls -- iron play becomes erratic

You think you need stiffer clubs

A good round could be good and a bad round awful - makes you want to take up badmitton

You start hooking and pushing drivers, you see hits off the toe and off the heel -- You start to think that you are not going inside enough -- down and out more to equal the forward.........

You end up with a wedge game with no spin and a Lie / loft machine at your bedside

You come take a lesson from Brian or myself and we show you how to draw a striaght plane line and you feel like........... well it all feels different to everybody -- to me back in the day it felt like i was trying to hit sand shot -- looked up and Brian said wow you look like david toms
Click to expand...


Mike,

That is almost scary how right on the money this post is. You have just explained my short career in golf.
 
Burner

Burner

New
golfbulldog said:
Some teacher's say 11 degress out to right field.... At least 11 degrees pre impact.... once impact occurs the clubface has only inches to travel to low point and then it turns up and inwards....

What do you think of this Brian?
Click to expand...

Curiously enough, a training aid
is built around an angle of approach of 11*. What a coincidence.
 
C

chrisfx811

New
Michael Jacobs said:
Below Plane Syndrome

You try to swing down and out to the inside corner....

You beat your slice add a little swivel and finally shoot in the 80's

You continue doing what you are doing - directing the club out to right field

You shoot under 80 for the first time......

You keep at -- start to develop some push and pulls -- iron play becomes erratic

You think you need stiffer clubs

A good round could be good and a bad round awful - makes you want to take up badmitton

You start hooking and pushing drivers, you see hits off the toe and off the heel -- You start to think that you are not going inside enough -- down and out more to equal the forward.........

You end up with a wedge game with no spin and a Lie / loft machine at your bedside
Click to expand...

Ok, did I just log into Brian's site, or the psychic hotline's site? :eek:
 
jenhaoyen

jenhaoyen

New
Michael Jacobs said:
Below Plane Syndrome

You try to swing down and out to the inside corner....

You beat your slice add a little swivel and finally shoot in the 80's

You continue doing what you are doing - directing the club out to right field

You shoot under 80 for the first time......

You keep at -- start to develop some push and pulls -- iron play becomes erratic

You think you need stiffer clubs

A good round could be good and a bad round awful - makes you want to take up badmitton

You start hooking and pushing drivers, you see hits off the toe and off the heel -- You start to think that you are not going inside enough -- down and out more to equal the forward.........

You end up with a wedge game with no spin and a Lie / loft machine at your bedside

You come take a lesson from Brian or myself and we show you how to draw a striaght plane line and you feel like........... well it all feels different to everybody -- to me back in the day it felt like i was trying to hit sand shot -- looked up and Brian said wow you look like david toms
Click to expand...
this is the most underated quote. Must REQUOTE AGAIN.
 
Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

New
Michael....HALL OF FAME POST...

Michael Jacobs said:
Below Plane Syndrome

You try to swing down and out to the inside corner....

You beat your slice add a little swivel and finally shoot in the 80's

You continue doing what you are doing - directing the club out to right field

You shoot under 80 for the first time......

You keep at -- start to develop some push and pulls -- iron play becomes erratic

You think you need stiffer clubs

A good round could be good and a bad round awful - makes you want to take up badmitton

You start hooking and pushing drivers, you see hits off the toe and off the heel -- You start to think that you are not going inside enough -- down and out more to equal the forward.........

You end up with a wedge game with no spin and a Lie / loft machine at your bedside

You come take a lesson from Brian or myself and we show you how to draw a striaght plane line and you feel like........... well it all feels different to everybody -- to me back in the day it felt like i was trying to hit sand shot -- looked up and Brian said wow you look like david toms
Click to expand...

In diagnosing EXACTLY what happened to me. I started shooting in the 80's(just been playing 3 years) and then fell apart. Irons were all over the place...I got to the place where I just wanted to quit.

I've had lessons with Brian but developed this inside out and up by over doing some things he taught me. We haven't yet worked on tracing a straight plane line. I had too much other stuff to work on.

I started using the NHA pattern and things greatly improved. Didn't have to make a trip to the club fitter. Life is becoming good again.
 
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