Nice Piece on FSN "Sport Science"

[birdie_man]

I am waiting to see what Brian has to say but I think the deal is.........

All things being equal, more delay may produce more speed.

But in reality all things are often not equal.......and some people are better off with earlier releases. I think I am one of them for the record so I can relate.

This guy has won the RE/MAX World Long Drive 5 times including a run of 4 straight.

Obviously it can't be all bad. (and that's at the least)

BTW I bet his wrist flexibility is fine. Mine is too. I just don't do Double-Cocked. (or at least all my efforts up to this point have not gone so well) I don't do lots of Trigger Delay with my wrist flat either, for that matter.

 

[holeout]

Your logic is flawed. All you are saying is that you believe it to be true, so it is. Then you use a latin phrase in attempts to qualify your education.

Explain how my logic is flawed.

And don't tell me I'm trying to qualify my education. I used terminology I'm familiar with to explain a concept. I even explained what it meant. Don't bash me just because I'm disagreeing with you.

In your last paragraph you even make my point directly. You say that all else being equal, more lag creates more clubhead speed. If Zuback changed his swing so that everything else was the same, but he had more lag, he would have more clubhead speed. My contention is that I don't think its possible for him to swing with more accumulator lag, because he is so musclebound.

The problem here is that you are ASSUMING that Zuback could add more accumulator lag and keep everything else equal. In the world of hypothetical situations, this works. But in the REAL WORLD this isn't always the case. I have no idea if Zuback could add accumulator lag and increase his speed or not. But that's not the point. Some people (I believe Brian's star pupil, Lindsey Gahm is an example) have higher swing speeds with a full-sweep-type release than they do with a snap-release/maximum trigger delay release.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Snap-Crackle-POP!

I played Pebble Beach for the first time on Sunday, May 31st, 1987.

So what?

So this—it was the DAY before I started working with Ben Doyle. I had had a pretty good year playing golf in tournaments, and played pretty well at Pebble, considering it was my first time playing a golf course like that.

I do remember how well I hit my Driver, and approximately how far.

The next day, Ben junked every single thing I had learned in 15 years of playing—and five of teaching—golf. Except he liked my bunker play, but that is another story for another day.

Long story short, he took me from weak grip, erect address, full-sweep release, and a right wrist that straightened soon after impact, to someone who did all of the above—the opposite!

I hit my irons by weeks end about 20 yards farther, but lower. It took about two weeks, but eventually, I hit my driver about 20 yards farther and DEAD straight.

Was it the snap release?

Was it the Mac O'Grady-type bent over address?

Was it "hitting it with my pivot'?

Was it my new flat left wrist LONG after impact?​

I have often looked at swings of mine on video from that era of my life....thinking.

I was a very good driver of the ball before. I became much better initially.

By 1999, I was a so-so Driver of the ball, and not so long. In 1993, I drove it so bad I couldn't play tournament golf a darn.

In early 1994, I started to figure out the "Never Hook Again" pattern, albeit an extreme version, and my driver eventually became a strength again.

Mike Finney and Tom Bartlett, using a very similar approach, and lots of the "so-called" MAXIMUM PARTICIPATION PATTERN, both became ultra-long and plenty straight enough, off of the tee.

They still are.

Brett and Josh Gahm, brothers of Lindsay, and long-time students of mine, use a MPP and both are great drivers of the ball. Brett is very long and very straight.

David Toms hit it shorter and crooked even trying to do it. So we backed off for the better (obviously).

Now days, I just don't worry about WHERE anybody releases their angles, WHAT PLANE SHIFTS they do or don't use, or anything like that.

So, do you "hit it longer" with a SNAP release?

In general, you do.

But do you PLAY better with one?

Isn't that the point?

So....my advice....


TRY IT.

You might like it.

But, there is one thing that all of my students all had, GREAT PIVOTS (by my definition). And they all were taught to, and do, snap that Kinetic Chain.

 

[mb6606]

Zuback and most of the Long Drive Pros are monsters. The guy to emulate is Jamie Sadlowski he is about 5'10" 170lbs and though he did not win the Remax champonship on ESPN last week he was seeded #1 in the final and was consistently the longest driver.

 

[birdie_man]

Canadian boy weooo:
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=jamie+sadlowski&search=Search

Nice face-on slo-mo here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SdjhA2_AYpY

...

 

[Steve Khatib]

There is so many physical aspects that are beyond most of us and a fitness guru should answer exactly why a guy can sweep release further than another guys snap release but in general sanappier will work better but to customise a pattern for a student can be different, so its too hard to generalise as there are too many variables present: body, technique etc.

 

[spktho]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Brian is saying, other than have the release that works best for you, is you hit the ball harder and farther with the sequence of your pivot,speed of your pivot and the snapping of the kinetic chain precisely at impact. If you look at the long drive guys and Jamie Sadlowski, in general you will notice the speed of their swing is tremendous. This speed is generated mostly all by the speed of their pivot, not by their type of release.

 

[pecky987]

Also - something no-one has noticed -

Jason has alot of left lean as well. i've found the only way to have that much shoulder turn, without picking yourself of the ball, is to have some leftward lean. is this normal?

 

[pecky987]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RutbASUvDcc

sean fister is built like zuback, and does have accumulator lag. also doesnt need this left lean to make his shoulder turn. and its a great swing to boot

 

[tourdeep]

on the contrary, it has been noticed!

Jason has alot of left lean as well. i've found the only way to have that much shoulder turn, without picking yourself of the ball, is to have some leftward lean. is this normal?

Pecky,

dunno if it's normal, but it is for Jason and several others! Also, it seems easier to get the hands higher, fwiw...

His right shoulder is just a hair closer to the target than his butt cheek at the top. He really loads that right foot, and swings like the arm of a grandfather clock.

I thought of that dude who hit that montster 515 yard drive on the now 14th hole at the desert rose (winterwood).

I haven't seen enough of Vijay's new swing, but has he adopted some of this technique?

 

[Chris Sturgess]

chris: you don't know that having layers and layers of muscle inhibits flexibility? Do u think zuback can touch his toes? Nobody said you have to be on steriods to be strong. Zuback isn't in the strong category. He is in the bodybuilder category. If u think he looks the way he does without ever taking any performance enhancing drug(steriods or hgh), think again.

glcoach: you are right, u dont have to have sergios lag to hit it far, but you would hit it FARTHER(maybe not straighter though) with more lag.

Adding lag would negatively effect other things in Zuback's swing, all other things are not equal. Try to get that through your thick head.

You are comically clueless about flexibility. Every joe schmoe who knows nothing about strength training thinks that more muscle equals less flexibility. That is not true if stretching is also involved. The average meathead bodybuilder has low flexibility because is always contracting muscles to lift weights but never stretches. That is where people like you get confused. They could have flexibility if they wanted to but they choose not to by only contracting muscles and never stretching them. Zuback however understands that stretching and flexibility is important to golf so he is no slouch in that department and could have a lagged late release if he wanted too. Don't act like you know things that you know nothing about.

Check out 227lbs, 5'11" kickboxer Alain Ngalani

http://blog.sanriotown.com/pantherworldchampion:hellokitty.com/files/2007/01/alain009.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iSJG29j_3I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04pNSTBikNE&feature=related

 

[birdie_man]

All I can say is.........I really doubt it has anything to do with flexibility of the wrists guys..............

.....

 

[tongzilla]

All I can say is.........I really doubt it has anything to do with flexibility of the wrists guys..............

.....

It has very little to do with flexibility, and a lot to do with technique and whether your brain will "let you" do it.

 

[thefuture37]

Adding lag would negatively effect other things in Zuback's swing, all other things are not equal. Try to get that through your thick head.

Have you talked to Zuback about his mechanics? What info do you have to be able to make such a statement? He is in the business of hitting it as far as possible. Don't you think he would try to maximize his trigger delay? Its not like he has to worry about hitting 30 yard wide fairways...

You are comically clueless about flexibility. Every joe schmoe who knows nothing about strength training thinks that more muscle equals less flexibility. That is not true if stretching is also involved. The average meathead bodybuilder has low flexibility because is always contracting muscles to lift weights but never stretches. That is where people like you get confused. They could have flexibility if they wanted to but they choose not to by only contracting muscles and never stretching them. Zuback however understands that stretching and flexibility is important to golf so he is no slouch in that department and could have a lagged late release if he wanted too.

Again, if you KNOW Zuback, why not just say so. Otherwise why would you assume this? Just because he is famous(marginally anyways)?

Don't act like you know things that you know nothing about.

Hey Pot
-yes Kettle
YOU'RE BLACK
-you don't say?

Check out 227lbs, 5'11" kickboxer Alain Ngalani

http://blog.sanriotown.com/pantherworldchampion:hellokitty.com/files/2007/01/alain009.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iSJG29j_3I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04pNSTBikNE&feature=related

Are you seriously comparing someone with a bodybuilder body to an MMA fighter? If you can't see that difference you may want to reread the above conversation...

 

[dale47]

I wonder what McClean thinks about Jasons X factor or should I say lack of one.
Jason also hits a fade,so now I ask is it a myth about a draw giving more distance ?

 

[spktho]

Zuback uses the swing that he does because it produces the results that he wants. I'm pretty sure he has been around golf enough to have heard about "lag" or "delayed release".

In my limited experience, a draw with a driver is difficult to be consistent with--especially when giving 100% effort. A draw also generally has a lower ball flight. A fade is easier to control and generally has a higher ball flight.

 

[dale47]

In my limited experience, a draw with a driver is difficult to be consistent with--especially when giving 100% effort. A draw also generally has a lower ball flight. A fade is easier to control and generally has a higher ball flight.

OK..........but I'm talking pure distance.

 

[mjstrong]

I wonder what McClean thinks about Jasons X factor or should I say lack of one.
Jason also hits a fade,so now I ask is it a myth about a draw giving more distance ?

I think a draw generally goes further for most people because there is less backspin than a fade. If you can get a low spin rate while hitting a fade, you're in business. I think Hank Kheune said that once he learned to hit a fade properly, he was hitting it further than he used to hit a draw. By the way, I wonder where he's playing now a days...?

 

[Dariusz J.]

I had a pleasure to exchange two posts with Sean Fister, former ReMax champion on GEA Forum. When I asked him what pattern he used, he answered - fade.
Having said that, I hit longer with a draw than fade, but I guess it depends on what is one's swing characteristics. Downswing of mine is from inside, thus, I feel a bit uncomfortable when playing a fade which can effect the SS numbers. Those LD monsters hit balls with long drivers 48-50" - and with such a long stick it's much harder to come to the ball from the inside. I bet the majority of LD players are hitting slightly out-to-in.

Cheers

Cheers

 

[Chris Sturgess]

Have you talked to Zuback about his mechanics? What info do you have to be able to make such a statement? He is in the business of hitting it as far as possible. Don't you think he would try to maximize his trigger delay? Its not like he has to worry about hitting 30 yard wide fairways...

Again, if you KNOW Zuback, why not just say so. Otherwise why would you assume this? Just because he is famous(marginally anyways)?


Hey Pot
-yes Kettle
YOU'RE BLACK
-you don't say?


Are you seriously comparing someone with a bodybuilder body to an MMA fighter? If you can't see that difference you may want to reread the above conversation...

(sigh) This is the point where I realize the person I am talking to is a moron and there is no point in going further.