Nicklaus Swing (age 15)

[jeffy]

FWIW, when Greg Norman did an interview on that golf talk central or whatever that show was that Peter Kessler used to do, they got on the topic of modern driving technology and ball technology and Greg Norman said the following paraphrased:

"People have no idea how good of a driver Nicklaus was, and how believably powerful he was. If Nicklaus in his early prime had the technology that we do, he would have hit every drive more than 360 yards with more accuracy than he did in his days of playing."

At first I thought Greg Norman was of course engaging in hyperbole, but I'm really not sure anymore. Also, I once heard Arnold talking about how he would be playing with Jack and keeping up with him off the tee (and Arnold was really long for his day and prided himself on his driving distance) and then Jack would just empty the clip after Arnie hit one of his best drives and carry it by like 30 yeards....said it was really demoralizing.

Tom Weiskopf followed Arnold and Jack when they were paired in the first round of the 1962 US Open at Oakmont. Off the first tee, both hit good drives (which went over a slight hill so you couldn't see where they ended up), with one finishing about 20 yards ahead of the other. As Arnie was walking toward the longer ball, Jack squeaked "Arnie, you're back here". Weiskopf said Arnie's head snapped up in disbelief, then he trudged back to his ball. Tom said at that point "you knew Jack had Arnie's number".

Granted they were using the small ball then, but, at the 1964 British Open at St. Andrews, Nicklaus drove the 18th green three times with a 3 wood. Fourth time he needed driver.

 

[ej20]

Jack had an across the line at the top,steep transition and reverse tumble type of swing.

To those that think Sergio's lay off and tumble swing is the way to go,Jack has 18 majors to Sergio's zero.

 

[66er]

I am too young to say I seen Jack in his prime or as a non champions tour player at that, but for the people who did, was he 40-50 yards past his playing partner each time? I know we cant accurately know how far he would hit it with todays equipment, but we do know how far he hit it in relation to players back then. I maintain that players now are simply more powerful that thoses back then(Give or take a few guys). I dont think theres even an argument for the most part, if he wasnt miles ahead of those guys then I refuse to believe he would be hitting it 360 these days, way ahead of more athletic players in the modern era than those of yesteryear.

But if he was, then maybe.....

 

[natep]

Young Jack had one of the most dynamic swings I've ever seen. Check out the first swing on this video. Put a modern driver in that guys hand and I have no problem believing he has the capability to hit it 360.

 

[dschultz6072]

Young Jack had one of the most dynamic swings I've ever seen. Check out the first swing on this video. Put a modern driver in that guys hand and I have no problem believing he has the capability to hit it 360.

You know it's funny how he's saying he only swung the club at 120 miles an hour in Golf, My Way. It looks like he could rip the cover off the ball.

 

[ej20]

As for Jack driving it 360 with todays equipment,he probably could but that would not be his average.Most of todays long bombers like Bubba,JB and a few others could hit it 360 if they tried but they average around 310.

In 1980 when Jack was 40,his driving average was 269 yards.Between 1981 and 1986 his driving average was around 264.Granted,he was past his prime but there were plenty of guys longer than Jack between 1980 and 1986.

 

[birly-shirly]

You know it's funny how he's saying he only swung the club at 120 miles an hour in Golf, My Way. It looks like he could rip the cover off the ball.

Does he actually say that? I remember him stating yardages - not so sure of clubhead speed. I do though remember him saying that he had learned to throttle back somewhat and was a much straighter and consistent driver than he'd been as a younger man. I think we might be seeing some of that in those videos.

 

[ej20]

Would a young Jack have been longer than a young Tiger?

No stats for Jack but Tiger averaged 323.1 yards in his first Masters in 1997.The driver he was using was steel shafted and the ball was balata.He would have averaged 360 with modern equipment.

 

[natep]

Hard to say. How far ahead of everybody was Tiger's 323 average that Masters?

 

[ej20]

Hard to say. How far ahead of everybody was Tiger's 323 average that Masters?

Tiger was 25 yards longer than the next player I believe.

He won by 12 shots.

 

[natep]

I would have to say probably not then. Isnt that like 10-15 yards longer than the highest tour average these days?

If Tiger could truly average 323 with steel and balata then I'm not sure if any tour player ever could match him.

 

[ej20]

The longest club he needed to hit into a green was a 6 iron.This includes the par fives in two.

Remember this is with the same equipment Jack used with the exception of steel heads which probably had an extra 0.2 of COR which translates to about 6 yards of extra carry over persimmon.

 

[dbl]

I am too young to say I seen Jack in his prime or as a non champions tour player at that, but for the people who did, was he 40-50 yards past his playing partner each time? I know we cant accurately know how far he would hit it with todays equipment, but we do know how far he hit it in relation to players back then. I maintain that players now are simply more powerful that thoses back then(Give or take a few guys). I dont think theres even an argument for the most part, if he wasnt miles ahead of those guys then I refuse to believe he would be hitting it 360 these days, way ahead of more athletic players in the modern era than those of yesteryear.

But if he was, then maybe.....

Accuracy was more important in those days, so I doubt he was giving "100%" very often, whereas today's bombers play that way a lot. Bomb and gouge.

 

[ej20]

Tiger was UNBELIEVABLY long when he first got on tour but felt his swing was inconsistent.He has lost distance with every swing change he has made.

 

[birly-shirly]

Would a young Jack have been longer than a young Tiger?

No stats for Jack but Tiger averaged 323.1 yards in his first Masters in 1997.The driver he was using was steel shafted and the ball was balata.He would have averaged 360 with modern equipment.

Tiger only got within 30 yards of that driving average 1 time in the 3 other Masters that he won, and even then he was still nearly 20 yards shorter than 1997.

 

[ej20]

Tiger only got within 30 yards of that driving average 1 time in the 3 other Masters that he won, and even then he was still nearly 20 yards shorter than 1997.

Sure but my point was to highlight the kind of distance Tiger was capable of.Did Nicklaus ever show that kind of power even for one tournament?He may have but I haven't seen or read about it.

 

[natep]

I agree its misleading to use those stats. Here are the complete tour stats on driving in 1997. Tiger isnt 25 yards past the next closest guy, he's not even #1.

PGATOUR.com - 1997 PGA TOUR Driving Distance

We dont have stats from Jack's young days so we cant really know what his best week may have been.

 

[ej20]

I agree its misleading to use those stats. Here are the complete tour stats on driving in 1997. Tiger isnt 25 yards past the next closest guy, he's not even #1.

PGATOUR.com - 1997 PGA TOUR Driving Distance

We dont have stats from Jack's young days so we cant really know what his best week may have been.

Like I said,it was just to point out the kind of power Tiger can generate.He obviously was driving it well and did not hit any 3 woods off the tee to get that kind of average.

We don't have Jacks's early stats but we do during the period 1980 and 1986.It's not that mind boggling and he isn't even consistently in the top 10.No doubt he lost distance compared to his younger days but I doubt it would be like 30 or 40 yards.

 

[natep]

Like I said,it was just to point out the kind of power Tiger can generate.He obviously was driving it well and did not hit any 3 woods off the tee to get that kind of average.

We don't have Jacks's early stats but we do during the period 1980 and 1986.It's not that mind boggling and he isn't even consistently in the top 10.No doubt he lost distance compared to his younger days but I doubt it would be like 30 or 40 yards.

Yeah I see your point, I didnt see your previous post before I made my post.

 

[jeffy]

Can you imagine making that swing with Jack Grout holding a fistful of hair? No wonder he ended up with a crewcut.

OUCH!!!!

Don't let Brandel Chamblee see that swing or he'd have a stroke!