Oh Johnny....Johnny Johnny Johnny, you will never learn

[slash]

"The only thing i don't like about his game right now is he is aiming left on wedges, he's sort of trying to cut them instead of trapping them in there."

I watched this and Tiger looked to me like he was very much more open, than his usual, and aimed left as Miller said. Miller was talking about a cut. If Tiger was square, traditional traintrack say, and swings left ball goes straight. Correct? So if he is open and alligns left and swings left would he not also need to fade it to get it at that pin. We saw it land tight but we don't know if it was straight.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Just for pure giggles, let's say for tiger to hit that wedge dead straight he needed to swing 4* left ok?

You could swing left from an open stance, a square stance, or with some major manipulation possibly a closed stance. However, standing and aiming more open makes accomplishing this generally much easier.

 

[GeoffDickson]

Here is some verbatim commentary from Miller from today's final round. The comments were during a slo-mo replay of McIlroys approach shot to the fifth green that just caught the left edge of the green (a long way from the hole).

"He really turns the face over whilst the ball is on the clubface...you gotta keep that thing square folks for about an inch while its on the face...you can't get it on the face square and then flip it over.

 

[wulsy]

Does anyone realise who these commentators are talking to?

 

[Keefer]

Heard Gary Koch say yesterday that he had talked to Foley and Foley said he agreed with Miller that Tiger was aiming too far left with his wedges and that they had worked on that before the round yesterday. Miller then said to Koch something like glad he's listening to me etc. etc.. So for one thing (at least) anyway Foley and Miller were on the same page.

Now back to your regular scheduled (I know more than Johnny) Miller bashing.

 

[conkanen]

Jacobson needs to get rid of that heavy hit nonsense too btw.

He is nails on a chalkboard for me. Hate his voice/analysis.

 

[Keefer]

"The only thing i don't like about his game right now is he is aiming left on wedges, he's sort of trying to cut them instead of trapping them in there."

I watched this and Tiger looked to me like he was very much more open, than his usual, and aimed left as Miller said. Miller was talking about a cut. If Tiger was square, traditional traintrack say, and swings left ball goes straight. Correct? So if he is open and alligns left and swings left would he not also need to fade it to get it at that pin. We saw it land tight but we don't know if it was straight.

Missed this post. You, Johnny and Foley were on the same page. Tiger was aimed too far left according to what Foley told Koch.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I agree that closed to the path is absolutely a prerequisite for a center strike draw, but if the face is pointing at or left of the target as well you're hooking, no?

Yes.

I say this all the time.

The "other side of the aisle" never says open to the target but closed-to-the-path.

Just saying.

"The only thing i don't like about his game right now is he is aiming left on wedges, he's sort of trying to cut them instead of trapping them in there."

I watched this and Tiger looked to me like he was very much more open, than his usual, and aimed left as Miller said. Miller was talking about a cut. If Tiger was square, traditional traintrack say, and swings left ball goes straight. Correct? So if he is open and alligns left and swings left would he not also need to fade it to get it at that pin. We saw it land tight but we don't know if it was straight.

All I am saying is they (TV Commentators) have next to no clue about the D-Plane, and call almost every straight ball swing a CUT SWING or CUT SHOT.

Personally, I think Tiger has been hitting down on the ball too much, and therefore HAD TO swing further left, which probably resulted in his aiming so far left.

Here is some verbatim commentary from Miller from today's final round. The comments were during a slo-mo replay of McIlroys approach shot to the fifth green that just caught the left edge of the green (a long way from the hole).

"He really turns the face over whilst the ball is on the clubface...you gotta keep that thing square folks for about an inch while its on the face...you can't get it on the face square and then flip it over.

That what he FELT.

We know that if you could control the extra tenth or so of a degree of roll while the ball was on the face, the ball would draw LESS!!!!

Does anyone realise who these commentators are talking to?

No.

Heard Gary Koch say yesterday that he had talked to Foley and Foley said he agreed with Miller that Tiger was aiming too far left with his wedges and that they had worked on that before the round yesterday. Miller then said to Koch something like glad he's listening to me etc. etc.. So for one thing (at least) anyway Foley and Miller were on the same page.

Now back to your regular scheduled (I know more than Johnny) Miller bashing.

I think Johnny Miller is the best color man in the history of golf on TV.

He was my idol as a kid.

I still have NEVER seen anyone hit it better in person.

Next.

 

[jimmyt]

I think Johnny Miller is the best color man in the history of golf on TV.

He was my idol as a kid.

I still have NEVER seen anyone hit it better in person.

Next.[/QUOTE]



Couldn't agree more.....

 

[Mike Thomas (sunmart)]

How about a list of Tour players that use Trackman daily. Would be very interesting. Which Ryder Cuppers?

 

[Billy McKinney]

Nobilo, btw, is trying to learn all about TrackMan and the D Plane (from a notable tour instructor with red hair), hence the open face draw comment....if you're going to be the most boring commentator you'd might as well have some decent info for the viewers.
And Sean Foley would tell Miller 'you're right' just to get him out of his face.

 

[wulsy]

Does anyone realise who these commentators are talking to?

They is talkin to Joe Know Nutin Public. Ya think he want to know bout tings that make his head hurt?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

They is talkin to Joe Know Nutin Public. Ya think he want to know bout tings that make his head hurt?

No because you can present it in a way that can make sense, golfers take their commentary generally as truth and may go try it out themselves. The more they don't educate there will be no changes in the general golfing public.

I cannot count how many people i have helped by just explaining to them properly how ball flight works, you don't have to make the d-plane complicated. People can get it.

 

[wulsy]

People can get it.

They don't want to hear it Jim, they want to be entertained not educated. Johnny does a great job - exactly what his producer wants. He's the ultimate love him/hate him character, even more than Nick Foldo. To my mind Feherty and McChord have become too boring. Johnny, like Faldo, is a bit a narcissistic IMHO but that's what make him interesting to people. And, boy, could he play.

Nobilo, that well balanced and well informed individual puts people to sleep.

 

[johnnymarlboro]

What has d-plane got to do with what Johnny said. He's talking about Tiger trying to slice his wedge. He probably understands the D-plane, how do you know he doesn't? He might have worded and interpreted it wrong but he WASN'T talking about d-plane, or the fact you shoudn't hit left. Tiger was going WAY too far across with his wedge. That has nothing to do with D-plane if he's trying to slice the heck out of it.
Get real.
Stop turning this into a D-plane thread. How do you know Johnny didn't know more about the D-Plane when you were in short trousers?
The high and mighty attitude stinks.

Sure he probably understands the d-plane.... He just worded it, and explained it, and interpreted it all completely wrong. That makes sense.

Thank you for proving the point that the average Joe (this is you) is completely misinformed because they believe everything that announcers with 0 understanding of ballflight laws tell them.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

What has d-plane got to do with what Johnny said. He's talking about Tiger trying to slice his wedge. He probably understands the D-plane, how do you know he doesn't?

Correct, however Tiger wasn't trying to slice his wedge. He was aiming left enough so he could swing left enough to zero out his path so the ball went directly over the flag. Johnny and others continue to talk about people hitting cut shots that LOOK like cut shots but are simply the way that golfer hits it straight. Brian explained this above.

He might have worded and interpreted it wrong but he WASN'T talking about d-plane, or the fact you shoudn't hit left. Tiger was going WAY too far across with his wedge. That has nothing to do with D-plane if he's trying to slice the heck out of it.
Get real.

Really? So far across that it landed directly over the flag and ended up 2 feet? Again he wasn't trying to slice it, Johnny is assuming that because he is aiming very left but Tiger is only doing that because he needs to, as brian said above, is probably hitting down a bit too much.

Stop turning this into a D-plane thread. How do you know Johnny didn't know more about the D-Plane when you were in short trousers? The high and mighty attitude stinks.

First, i don't have a high and mighty attitude. Johnny could still to this day give me plenty of shots and still wipe the floor with me. I'm sure he can produce any shot that i ask him too without really understanding proper ball flight, that you can't produce a heavy hit, or trap draw it. But the reality is he doesn't quite understand what is really happening with ball flight otherwise he wouldn't say such things on a golf telecast. I feel my initial post was pretty respectful if you don't that's your opinion.

All i'm trying to get across that we can't expect people to get better if we have people in positions to spew mass consumption that is just wrong. There have been plenty of countless wasted hours of trying to hit a straight shot by swinging straight, you need to swing out to right field to hit it well, you need to create a heavy hit, the ball starts where the path is and then curves away because of face or any other number of incorrect thoughts.

Why can't i challenge the all time greats to learn to be correct? I mean Tiger is on record saying he didn't truly get ball flight before trackman even though he could hit any shot you asked him too.

 

[magicmarker]

Sure he probably understands the d-plane.... He just worded it, and explained it, and interpreted it all completely wrong. That makes sense.

Thank you for proving the point that the average Joe (this is you) is completely misinformed because they believe everything that announcers with 0 understanding of ballflight laws tell them.

If you can adjust the face angle during impact (as Johnny Miller has repeatedly reminded us), how correct does your understanding of ball flight laws really need to be. All you gotta do is swing that club head on down until you get to impact and then just make any necessary club-face adjustments during impact to hit a decent shot. I'm sure handicaps everywhere are plunging thanks to gems like this getting out to the masses....

Entertaining, absolutely. Empirical, not even close. That's Johnny Miller the announcer.

You can be a brilliant player AND be a bonehead announcer. They are not mutually exclusive. Miller time proves it week in week out.

 

[Ringer]

Ever try to slice a wedge? Doesn't work as well as slicing a 4 iron does it?

Johnny doesn't know the D Plane, or if he does then he refuses to use it in his commentary.

I doubt he really cares that much about being right, so long as he gets paid.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I doubt he really cares that much about being right, so long as he gets paid.

Well, that's a whole other topic but i see what you're saying.

 

[slash]

I think when Miller hit a trap draw or any of the other shots he talks about, that's exactly what he did. He did it and he knocked a lot of pins down doing it. It just so happens that trackman was not around then to explain what he actually did.