On the Range

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I am continually amazed at some of the things that Tour Pros are "working on" from week to week. Many of them succeed despite themselves.

Played with a PGA Tour veteran and multiple winner on tour last week in an event and picked his brain over some of his misses, especially his left misses. I was shocked. His divots were at or right of his target and claimed he was just trying to hold off the clubface and didn't do it.

One of my former students hit 6-iron into #18 at Pebble Beach last week in the AT&T. Said he was trying to fade his tee sot and instead hit a pull-draw that hugged the ocean. When a friend of ours asked him what he thinks about when he tries to hit a fade, (open the clubface, swing more left, knuckles under release...) he said, "No...I just think fade."

Must be nice.

The point to the story is that we have a tremendous amount of information at our fingertips that make us better players and teachers. But when you watch Chris DiMarco hit balls on the range and all he is working on is alignment and not taking divots you quickly realize that most Tour players don't WANT that much information. It gets in the way of their ability to score...which is kind of important.

And, IMO, if you are a former major champion and cut making machine and you are shooting 83 with a swing that looks great on video, its time to reassess your changes and your teacher.

Just sayin.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Who shot the 83?

Good call on the ability to score. Mickelson just said he started making putts when the mechanical thoughts left his mind.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Wulsy, does it mean anything that we asked the exact same question at the exact same time despite you being half way across the globe?
 
What continues to amaze me is the thinking that a system, or teacher, can make a great golfer. That is not the case. There are as many different swings as there are teachers on tour and yet they continue to succeed without a dominant system, or teacher.

What makes a great golf swing is not mechanics but the ability to control the flight of the ball both in distance, height, and direction. They are able to do that under pressure. And the other half, Putting.
 
Was just reading a couple of exchanges on twitter from ex-Tour Players and wannabe teachers. Scary stuff. Some of these guys (teachers and ex-players) are so misguided, they just talk a whole load of monkey-turd.

I would agree with ekenn: some of these players succeed despite themselves and their teachers. But, hey, that's nothing new.
 
Can anyone else picture SteveT walking up and down the line of a PGA Tour event, listening to what these guys are "feeling?"

His friggin head would explode.
 
On a somewhat related note, any player on the PGA Tour that putts better after working with Dave Stockton is doing so strictly because they "believe" it will help them and they have faith in DS because he was a great putter.

Otherwise....snake oil. Pure, 10W 30 snake oil.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
...most Tour players don't WANT that much information. It gets in the way of their ability to score...which is kind of important.

To be the best teacher that ever lived, you would have to be able to do the following:

1. Help everyday golfers in a regular hour lesson format RIGHT NOW in the lesson and in a way that can continued to be tweaked for further improvement.

2. Be able to help large groups of golfers, better player groups, adult beginners, junior golfers. You can't bore them either.

3. Have the ability to take a brand new junior golfer all the way to the tour, or near tour level, and do it multiple times.

4. Be able to help a PGA Tour player on the range at an event, and away from an event, right now, and in a n a way that can continued to be tweaked for further improvement.

5. Be able to answer questions LIVE on radio or video in a manner than helps golfers who are listening and watching, and entertain them as well.

6. Be able to write books and produce video that help a wide range of golfer and stand the test of time.

7. Be able to play a lick, or at least produce "tour quality" shots for demonstration purposes.

8. Have the ability to improve and inspire a legion of other teachers.

9. Advance the profession's information base by uncovering and developing new, solid information that stands the test of time.

10. Be able to explain any method, and if need be, teach effectively side-by-sdie with the inventor of it.


#4 isn't anywhere as easy as you think. One false phrase and......your player is trunk slamming.


And, IMO, if you are a former major champion and cut making machine and you are shooting 83 with a swing that looks great on video, its time to reassess your changes and your teacher.

Just sayin.

The proof is in the scores and the money.

What continues to amaze me is the thinking that a system, or teacher, can make a great golfer. That is not the case. There are as many different swings as there are teachers on tour and yet they continue to succeed without a dominant system, or teacher.

How many PURE SYSTEM golfers ever made it to the top 10 in the world rankings?

I would agree with ekenn: some of these players succeed despite themselves and their teachers. But, hey, that's nothing new.

That is the business. You can't change the rules, you have to learn to win within them.

Can anyone else picture SteveT walking up and down the line of a PGA Tour event, listening to what these guys are "feeling?"

His friggin head would explode.

"Pinkerton...."
 
S

SteveT

Guest
Okay, okay, fellas/gals.... have you ever considered that I'm right and y'all are mostly wrong?

Pro golfers are like world class musicians .... they're beyond "feeel" and "athletics".... they're "artistic" !!!!

As artists of their trade, they only need "desire" to summon up their abilities. No "thinking", no "feeeling", no "science"... just pure "desire"!!!

I've achieved this higher state, but not in golf, and it took a huge commitment in time and labor. I won't tell you what it is but it does involve getting up on a stage and performing to an audience. Exhilarating!!!

If you've never achieved this higher state of existence in any endeavor, there's no use trying to explain it to you because you wouldn't understand. I shall never achieve this state in golf, but I try.... through a combination of kinesthetic proprioception plus scientific knowledge... while most of you search for that special "feeel"... oh well....
 
S

SteveT

Guest
Can anyone else picture SteveT walking up and down the line of a PGA Tour event, listening to what these guys are "feeling?"

His friggin head would explode.

Why would I care what they "feeel".... feeel is a feedback and doesn't reveal what you did to achieve that feeel. Only science will objectively tell you what you did and whether your "feeel was real".

Everybody's feeel is unique and trying to mimic somebody's feeel is useless. Trying to share feeelings to confirm your own feeelings is just socializing.. and certainly not scientific.

"How did you feeel, Tiger? Oh, Phil feeels it in his left kneecap! Me? I feeel it in my left pinky finger. Wonder what Rickie feeels?!"

Let's all share our "feeels" through our "feeelings" and together we'll solve the golfswing puzzle. Yah, sure.....:rolleyes:
 
I've achieved this higher state, but not in golf, and it took a huge commitment in time and labor. I won't tell you what it is but it does involve getting up on a stage and performing to an audience. Exhilarating!!!
I would like to know what that is SteveT. It would certainly help to pad your crediblity - if, indeed, it needs padding - if you were to let us in on your performing abilities. (Karaoke singing or being sawn in half by a magician doesn't count)
 
I would like to know what that is SteveT. It would certainly help to pad your crediblity - if, indeed, it needs padding - if you were to let us in on your performing abilities. (Karaoke singing or being sawn in half by a magician doesn't count)

My guess is SteveT is a professional mime and this forum is just an outlet from being stuck in that goddamn glass box.
 
S

SteveT

Guest
AAAAH!!!... the detractors, attacking with their 'hits'.... like a swarm of mosquitoes ...:D
 
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