Out Toss (now with a page 2 explanation by Brian Manzella)
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Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
It's called a search, it isn't very difficult; you are just lazy and don't want too. That's cool, i respect your choice to be lazy but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to spoon feed you how to learn. In all honestly we're pretty nice around here, some forums will blast you harder and even give you a temporary ban for not searching for your answer before posting new threads and/or messing up current threads.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I don't use "hump the goat." Italians can do better than goats.
You are correct in the terminology department. There is a lot of terminology in golf instruction these days.
For your information, and the information of others on this site, all of that is going to change. Right now doing a search isn't that hard.
ZAP
New
I bet it took me about a year of reading and thinking about the stuff I read here to have the basic understanding I now have. Definitions are the most basic part of the equation really. Understanding how the definitions fit into making a swing is where it's at IMHO. Then trying to decide what applies to a golfer belongs in the hands of someone more qualified than I am.
Don't need a lecture from you. I've been around golf forums probably longer than you. I remember Brian Manzella from the FGI days. That was before he had this site. If your goal is to have a small insular cult like forum then keep using these ephemisms without explanations.
If on the other hand you want to attract more eyeballs to your site and grow, maybe an easy to find explanation of these made up terms is not such a bad idea. Just sayin........ Sounds like things are going to change for the better with understanding the euphemisms. IMO it will be a change for the better.
For people on the outside looking in (not in the inner circle) having to read another whole thread in a search for what the terminolgy means is not productive. A quick easy to find glossary makes sense, except to the status quo people.
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Thousands and Thousands of hours is how much time I've spent on this website giving information away.
We've got 30-35 thousand unique visitors per month coming through this portal. Small insular cult?
Anyhoo, new site coming.....
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
Keefer, I am not following you. Not trying to lecture either but the search function works well. I use it all the time to clarify and gain understanding. There is a lot of information and the website is constantly moving forward. Every euphamism, example and phrase coined has multiple accompanied threads. With posts from lots of different contributors that each have their own unique view of each concept.
As regular consumers of BM's instruction it would be tiresome to rehash previously discussed concepts over and over and would bog down the site. This is why there is a search function. I myself regularly search different concepts or ideas because I have either moved on from them or didn't incorporate them but still want to stay abreast of them to maybe be able to understand where another poster is coming from. The search is free just like the content available here.
Good luck with your game and if I can help in any way feel free to PM.
As regular consumers of BM's instruction it would be tiresome to rehash previously discussed concepts over and over and would bog down the site. This is why there is a search function. I myself regularly search different concepts or ideas because I have either moved on from them or didn't incorporate them but still want to stay abreast of them to maybe be able to understand where another poster is coming from. The search is free just like the content available here.
Good luck with your game and if I can help in any way feel free to PM.
puttmaster
New
Sorry, Keefer, but I can't fathom the idea of complaining about having access to world-class, cutting edge information and ongoing dialogue ... for free. Plus, for the price of a golf glove, the ability to purchase that information in more detail in video format. (Perhaps that's why I own every BManz video released to date.)
To provide another perspective, I lost touch with this site for almost two years due to relocation and other demands on my time. When I logged back in several months ago and saw all of the information re: the new scientific findings, Ideas About the Release, etc., I simply used the Search function to bring myself up to date with the current dialogue. It took all of one week to do so. I consider that a paltry investment on my part in exchange for the tremendous return received from this site.
Besides that, one can learn a lot more by reading the numerous threads on the site where a particular topic is discussed from all perspectives -- instructors, players, scientists, analysts and wise-guys.
Matt 4-L
New
What's a dillweed?
duckjr78
New
Sorry, Keefer, but I can't fathom the idea of complaining about having access to world-class, cutting edge information and ongoing dialogue ... for free. Plus, for the price of a golf glove, the ability to purchase that information in more detail in video format. (Perhaps that's why I own every BManz video released to date.)
To provide another perspective, I lost touch with this site for almost two years due to relocation and other demands on my time. When I logged back in several months ago and saw all of the information re: the new scientific findings, Ideas About the Release, etc., I simply used the Search function to bring myself up to date with the current dialogue. It took all of one week to do so. I consider that a paltry investment on my part in exchange for the tremendous return received from this site.
Besides that, one can learn a lot more by reading the numerous threads on the site where a particular topic is discussed from all perspectives -- instructors, players, scientists, analysts and wise-guys.
This.
birly-shirly
New
I guess what Keefer is REALLY complaining about is being told in a somewhat condescending manner to use the search function. well, duh!
I kind of relate to that. Someone asks a question. If I know the answer, and can be arsed to type it up, I'll do it. If I don't know, or I can't be arsed - whether because it's too long, involved, controversial, or likely to start another Hogan discussion - I probably won't, in which case I'll just keep quiet. Help. Or don't help. It's that simple.
What I would never do is lecture someone on using the search function - unless it was a suggestion along lines of "I'm sure there was a thread on here about [best ballstriker ever], try searching for ["eamonn darcy"] and you'll probably find it."
To answer Keefer's question though about a glossary of terms - I'm not actually sure it would work. Folk round here bandy around terms like "new release", "going normal", "lagging the sweetspot", and "that other forum". Concise and systematically arranged definitions could be hard to provide. Some of these are big concepts, some of them are really laid out in Brian's "pay for" videos, and some is highly classified. On the other hand "bumpy back, keep it back" can be explained in a line or two. But it doesn't need to be in a glossary, as you'll find it in every thread.
I kind of relate to that. Someone asks a question. If I know the answer, and can be arsed to type it up, I'll do it. If I don't know, or I can't be arsed - whether because it's too long, involved, controversial, or likely to start another Hogan discussion - I probably won't, in which case I'll just keep quiet. Help. Or don't help. It's that simple.
What I would never do is lecture someone on using the search function - unless it was a suggestion along lines of "I'm sure there was a thread on here about [best ballstriker ever], try searching for ["eamonn darcy"] and you'll probably find it."
To answer Keefer's question though about a glossary of terms - I'm not actually sure it would work. Folk round here bandy around terms like "new release", "going normal", "lagging the sweetspot", and "that other forum". Concise and systematically arranged definitions could be hard to provide. Some of these are big concepts, some of them are really laid out in Brian's "pay for" videos, and some is highly classified. On the other hand "bumpy back, keep it back" can be explained in a line or two. But it doesn't need to be in a glossary, as you'll find it in every thread.
Burner
New
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
So because you've been on forums longer than me you know better? Oh btw i'm a member on FGI too and met Brian before he started his own site too i just happened to put in a lot of work to become an instructor.
Brian's site is growing just fine, he's put up the statistics often to prove it.
That's your opinion and also a poor marketing strategy, the people who really want to be here will take the time to learn. There are umpteen members of this site who really just read and never post. I have students like this to prove it, read all the time but never post.
There really isn't an inner circle, some have more knowledge than others but that's with all things when you around something a long time. The quick/easy glossary you seek is called "search button" and "insert term." The fact remains you just don't want too.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Bottom line is the search tool is very simple. Hell, when Mandrin (whom I really respect) posts, I sometimes need a dictionary. I would never ask him to define all the words he uses. It's just being purely lazy.
Lindsey Newman
New
Hey Keefer,
It sounds like you like a whole bunch of something for nothing. Why would you not pay for videos? What's really tiresome is that people expect content to be free. All the people on the "inside circle" got there buy working with Manzella instructors or buying the information via the videos. And I hardly think this could be associated with just another "golf website".
If I misunderstood you, please excuse, but I don't think I did.
It sounds like you like a whole bunch of something for nothing. Why would you not pay for videos? What's really tiresome is that people expect content to be free. All the people on the "inside circle" got there buy working with Manzella instructors or buying the information via the videos. And I hardly think this could be associated with just another "golf website".
If I misunderstood you, please excuse, but I don't think I did.
hp12c
New
Keefer,
Searching around for those terms is a kind of nice way to ease yourself into that 'inner circle' you mention. (Although I doubt it really exists, even in the most tenuous of fashions.) Its kind of fun, marauding around like a bull in a china shop trying to play a bit of catch-up, if you like, and then you're at liberty to take all the good stuff, together with your extant knowledge, and have a bit of an explore with your own golf swing or that of your students. It's up to each of us to plough our own furrow and this forum doesn't half sharpen your tines...
There's some tremendous people here so stick around and good luck with everything.
Searching around for those terms is a kind of nice way to ease yourself into that 'inner circle' you mention. (Although I doubt it really exists, even in the most tenuous of fashions.) Its kind of fun, marauding around like a bull in a china shop trying to play a bit of catch-up, if you like, and then you're at liberty to take all the good stuff, together with your extant knowledge, and have a bit of an explore with your own golf swing or that of your students. It's up to each of us to plough our own furrow and this forum doesn't half sharpen your tines...
There's some tremendous people here so stick around and good luck with everything.
Matt 4-L
New
I'm a little confused, I was under the impression that IOTR represented the best current thinking on swinging a golf club and that 'out toss' was a critical component of that - but you aren't really teaching this to many? Am I missing something?
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