Pitfalls of a flat shoulder turn?

[softconsult]

GMBtempe, I think one of your biggest issues is simply a sequencing thing.
On the downswing, your feet, legs, and hips are missing in action.
At least the 3 frames shown indicate that. Look at the pocket on your pants. Pretty much stationary. You need to work on unwinding from the ground up. If you could improve in this aspect, some of the things you are trying to fix, will fix themselves.

Something to comtemplate.

 

[potterphd]

GMBtempe, I think one of your biggest issues is simply a sequencing thing.
On the downswing, your feet, legs, and hips are missing in action.
At least the 3 frames shown indicate that. Look at the pocket on your pants. Pretty much stationary. You need to work on unwinding from the ground up. If you could improve in this aspect, some of the things you are trying to fix, will fix themselves.

Something to comtemplate.

Hope this doesn't qualify as a threadjack as perhaps gmb will find it useful as well. Steve, I've often gotten the same bit about swinging more from the ground up but have never found a drill or swing thought that has gotten me there (my move is in many ways similar to, though not as nice as gmb's). Ideas?

 

[softconsult]

I might be able to list some, but really Manzella and his instructors would be better sources.

The videos show what to do. You tube has enough Manzella & Jacobs stuff to explain it better than I could.

I learned this when I was a kid, and didn't have to think about it. Whatever it is that I do now comes from what
learned thing from years ago. Only I simply can't do it as easily or as well. I'm a whole lot smarter now than I was then, but I can go 3, 4, maybe even 12 holes before it dawns on me that I am being lazy. Lazy pivot, lazy legs, creates over the top, and result is pulls and other misses. If I go ahead use some athleticism and get to my left side, I'm fine.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Do you think its within the range to play good golf?

I have to move the right shoulder out or it gets under with excess tilt. I have kinda given up on getting to the elbow plane and seem to hit the TSP much better. It was ok in these but much better yesterday after I worked on some drills to get the right shoulder to move out. Still from a year ago its pretty much night and day.

Absolutely. Forget the elbow plane. Your clubhead seemed to be a little under the TSP and you've taken a good handpath to steepen it out. Id play with this in a heartbeat.

 

[SteveT]

Do you think its within the range to play good golf?

Were you standing still when you took these snapshot, because you don't seem to be clearing your hips, and your feet/shoes don't seem to display any weight/thrust shifting either ...???

Now do you appreciate my urging near-full monty pics for proper scientific evaluation ... strictly clinical you understand !!!

 

[gmbtempe]

Thanks Kevin, means a lot.

 

[gmbtempe]

GMBtempe, I think one of your biggest issues is simply a sequencing thing.
On the downswing, your feet, legs, and hips are missing in action.
At least the 3 frames shown indicate that. Look at the pocket on your pants. Pretty much stationary. You need to work on unwinding from the ground up. If you could improve in this aspect, some of the things you are trying to fix, will fix themselves.

Something to comtemplate.

Its a conscious decision softconsult, I am a classic drop slider under planer. The club from the top drops down vertical, then the left hip moves forward and then I can never catch up while under plane. So I am trying to work more shoulders, outward rather than downward, into the swing before the hips move out.

I actually really like these changes recently but asked the OP because I get concerned if the shoulder turn is too flat and could cause some issues. I can go steeper with them but its harder form me not to get the baseline out to the right with that move.

 

[ej20]

Now do you appreciate my urging near-full monty pics for proper scientific evaluation ... strictly clinical you understand !!!

I like your logic.Now if we could convince the lady golfers on this forum.......

 

[softconsult]

Conscious decision. Thanks for clarification.

 

[birly-shirly]

Its a conscious decision softconsult, I am a classic drop slider under planer. The club from the top drops down vertical, then the left hip moves forward and then I can never catch up while under plane. So I am trying to work more shoulders, outward rather than downward, into the swing before the hips move out.

I actually really like these changes recently but asked the OP because I get concerned if the shoulder turn is too flat and could cause some issues. I can go steeper with them but its harder form me not to get the baseline out to the right with that move.

Looks good to me. Would you say that you've had to compromise clubhead speed for impact alignments? Or is your clubhead speed not adversely affected by the more passive lower body?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Would anyone care to explain to me how an open lower body would contibute to clubhead speed for this golfer?

 

[birly-shirly]

Would anyone care to explain to me how an open lower body would contibute to clubhead speed for this golfer?

Would it be reasonable to let gmbtempe answer the question before we start a debate on what factors do or don't contribute to clubhead speed?

 

[leon]

Leon,

setup

Looks ok.

Its pretty much a conscious choice to swing flatter, here is a different pattern with a steeper turn. I am just wonder what the pitfalls are, should it be steeper. It seems rather personal choice but I would imagine there is some science behind which is better.

I think flat vs steep shoulder turn has been debated to death on here. I didn't catch most of it, but from memory steeper shoulders might give you more clubhead speed, but with more potential for loss of accuracy. As far as I can tell though its mostly personal preference. I'd say if you've got something that works for you, and you can repeat it, stick with it. As everyone else has said, it looks pretty good.

What is your ball flight & distance like, and what are your typical misses?

 

[ej20]

I think shoulder turn is like the plane of the golf club.Some have it a little steep,some have it a little flat.Both works.Find the one suitable for you.

Either way though,the shoulder turn has to be flat on the transition.

 

[gmbtempe]

Looks good to me. Would you say that you've had to compromise clubhead speed for impact alignments? Or is your clubhead speed not adversely affected by the more passive lower body?

Thats a good question, too early to tell. That swing was a 7 iron and that white sign was 170 and it landed at the base which is consistent with any pattern I use. Was it better compression? Maybe the face was in a better position?

I am pretty strong, right hand dominate type player, it seems as long as I get the alignments right I hit it about the same.

 

[ej20]

Thats a good question, too early to tell. That swing was a 7 iron and that white sign was 170 and it landed at the base which is consistent with any pattern I use. Was it better compression? Maybe the face was in a better position?

I am pretty strong, right hand dominate type player, it seems as long as I get the alignments right I hit it about the same.

Well,you're not wanting for distance.The average 7 iron carry on the PGA tour is 172 yards.Is that swinging for the fence or a controlled swing?

 

[gmbtempe]

Well,you're not wanting for distance.The average 7 iron carry on the PGA tour is 172 yards.Is that swinging for the fence or a controlled swing?

Controlled.

My 7iron MPH on flightscope that I gave Brian was 89 but I swung that one pretty good.

I do some mechanical things in my swing to generate more power, this is what my instructor has taught me, now whether they are scientifically valid, don't know but they work for me.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Would it be reasonable to let gmbtempe answer the question before we start a debate on what factors do or don't contribute to clubhead speed?

No, what I think is reasonable is that the guy doesnt get yet another junk thought in his head. The OP was about flat shoulders, not lower body contribution.

 

[birly-shirly]

No, what I think is reasonable is that the guy doesnt get yet another junk thought in his head. The OP was about flat shoulders, not lower body contribution.

Kevin - taking your post entirely at face value, I think your commitment to helping people and their golf games is admirable.

But I also think you badly misinterpreted my original question and why I asked it.

 

[softconsult]

ej20 wrote, "I think shoulder turn is like the plane of the golf club.Some have it a little steep,some have it a little flat.Both works.Find the one suitable for you.

Either way though,the shoulder turn has to be flat on the transition."

Your last sentence has me scratching my head. I don't see how a steeper shoulder turn gets to flat on transition. Further expanation, please.