What is so funny???
Question for mandrin
- Thread starter Ringer
- Start date
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What is so funny???
And you didn't think it was so funny when he was desperate to prove me wrong in other threads. Seems like you have a bias against me now don't you.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Bias.
Steve,
I have had several people tell me in person, and in PM's, and in emails, that they don't like what you are doing.
Maybe if you related what you are trying to say to golf, then you might make some converts.
But, right now, it is 90-10 against you.
Turn it around, you can do it!
Steve,
I have had several people tell me in person, and in PM's, and in emails, that they don't like what you are doing.
Maybe if you related what you are trying to say to golf, then you might make some converts.
But, right now, it is 90-10 against you.
Turn it around, you can do it!
CF acts on center of rotation
Does the "machine" need to make allowances for the CF? And, since CF doesn't act on the moving mass, it is not a force that "keeps the mass out there?"
Does the "machine" need to make allowances for the CF? And, since CF doesn't act on the moving mass, it is not a force that "keeps the mass out there?"
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BM, I'm not on here to be popular or make people happy. As you constantly remind us, it's about the truth. And the truth is Mandrin made a thread personal and now he doesn't like his medicine. I too have had emails (although no one called me) saying they're thrilled that I'm taking Mandrin to task.
Look, I am not against learning something and even having a vibrant discussion. But I am sick of mandrin's condecending tone with everyone who disagrees with him. He makes it personal and now people are griping about ME? Tell me, have you actually taken the time to tally up how many times he's put someone down? I haven't even touched the tip of the ice berg.
If you want to have someone like that in your forum and ROOT for them, then you deserve every bit of criticism you get for it. I'm not a mean spirited person who goes after someone negatively. But I'm sick of seeing HIM get away with it while those 90 root him on.
So I found something he's wrong about and look at the response. I have nearly all of the scientific community on my side of this argument and he STILL comes up with no counter argument, nor does he even address the point. He just shrugs it off as no one but him knows anything.
Like I said, if you're going to continue to base your "facts" on that kind of science, you deserve every bit of criticism you'll get.
Look, I am not against learning something and even having a vibrant discussion. But I am sick of mandrin's condecending tone with everyone who disagrees with him. He makes it personal and now people are griping about ME? Tell me, have you actually taken the time to tally up how many times he's put someone down? I haven't even touched the tip of the ice berg.
If you want to have someone like that in your forum and ROOT for them, then you deserve every bit of criticism you get for it. I'm not a mean spirited person who goes after someone negatively. But I'm sick of seeing HIM get away with it while those 90 root him on.
So I found something he's wrong about and look at the response. I have nearly all of the scientific community on my side of this argument and he STILL comes up with no counter argument, nor does he even address the point. He just shrugs it off as no one but him knows anything.
Like I said, if you're going to continue to base your "facts" on that kind of science, you deserve every bit of criticism you'll get.
Ringer,
You began this thread by asking a question of mandrin. mandrin replied in a very straight forward manner, without insult. Later you posted the following reply.
"I'm surprised someone that is so incredibly nit-picky about the science of any of my other posts wouldn't have been smart enough to mention how centrifugal force doesn't exist at all.
So much for the great all knowing Mandrin."
This is not what I would call a polite response.
Not taking sides, as I believe you both have something worthwhile to contribute to this forum. I will agree that sometimes mandrin makes irritating and vague statements, which is frustrating to many of us, but I believe most of what he says is very valued information to the bulk of the forumites. So, like BM suggests, take the high road. I believe you and mandrin working together would make a great golf swing discussion team and I'm looking forward to it happening very soon.
Cheers,
Lary
You began this thread by asking a question of mandrin. mandrin replied in a very straight forward manner, without insult. Later you posted the following reply.
"I'm surprised someone that is so incredibly nit-picky about the science of any of my other posts wouldn't have been smart enough to mention how centrifugal force doesn't exist at all.
So much for the great all knowing Mandrin."
This is not what I would call a polite response.
Not taking sides, as I believe you both have something worthwhile to contribute to this forum. I will agree that sometimes mandrin makes irritating and vague statements, which is frustrating to many of us, but I believe most of what he says is very valued information to the bulk of the forumites. So, like BM suggests, take the high road. I believe you and mandrin working together would make a great golf swing discussion team and I'm looking forward to it happening very soon.
Cheers,
Lary
golfaholic
New
Just googled this stuff and every response stated that centrifugal force does not exist and is a common misconception.
These are the type threads that make me feel good about the time I spend on these forum's.
These are the type threads that make me feel good about the time I spend on these forum's.
lia41985
New member
Ringer--YOU PROVED NOTHING. WHAT "SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY" DO YOU HAVE "BEHIND YOU"??? mandrin seems far from desperate. Confidence does not equal desperation. Creating numberous threads and making non-sensical stream-of-consciousness posts are signs of desperation.
Biffer, thanks for your concise summary of what happened in this thread.
Biffer, thanks for your concise summary of what happened in this thread.
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Ringer,
You began this thread by asking a question of mandrin. mandrin replied in a very straight forward manner, without insult. Later you posted the following reply.
"I'm surprised someone that is so incredibly nit-picky about the science of any of my other posts wouldn't have been smart enough to mention how centrifugal force doesn't exist at all.
So much for the great all knowing Mandrin."
This is not what I would call a polite response.
Not taking sides, as I believe you both have something worthwhile to contribute to this forum. I will agree that sometimes mandrin makes irritating and vague statements, which is frustrating to many of us, but I believe most of what he says is very valued information to the bulk of the forumites. So, like BM suggests, take the high road. I believe you and mandrin working together would make a great golf swing discussion team and I'm looking forward to it happening very soon.
Cheers,
Lary
This is not the thread which I'm talking about. I never said I was being polite in this thread. Look up other threads and you'll clearly see who is the real antagonist. I asked this question to prove a point and other than a handful of people who choose to disregard the overwhelming evidence, I think the point is made. I'm all for general discourse but not derisive attitudes towards others that disagree. My attitude in this thread is no different than his in all the other threads.
As for the rest of your statement I whole heartily agree.
If you choose to consider berating and derisive behavior "confidence" that's your choice. As for what scientific community, how about nearly every physicist since 1916 and the theory of general relativity? Please read more about the "spinning bucket" and how it directly relates to the issues Einstein grappled with in creating the theory. Or are you under the impression Einstein was nonsensical with his stream-of-consciousness?
Googling must be an inexact science, since this link came up second on my list(see second paragraph). Actually, it is somewhat relevant to the discussions...
Those who deny... and are not considering...
Mandrin~
Are there reputable sources within the scientific community who argue that CF does not exist?
Mandrin~
Are there reputable sources within the scientific community who argue that CF does not exist?
Bigwill,
Centrifugal and centripetal forces always act together as an action-reaction force pair and come into existence whenever there is some instantaneous or continuous rotation around a center. The centripetal force is the external action force and the centrifugal force is the inertial reaction force.
The centripetal force is the external force employed to constrain the moving mass into the curvilinear motion. It is usually a pulling force from a center or a pushing force from the outside towards a center of rotation.
In the simplest case of a mass whirling in a circle around a center, the cord pulls on the mass with the centripetal force and the centrifugal force, equal but opposite in magnitude, acts on the center.
When scientists use non-inertial reference frames, such as accelerating frames or rotating frames, they have to introduce fictitious inertial forces for Newton Laws to remain valid. Basically it is here the root for the confusion about centrifugal forces and inertial forces to be non-existing, fictitious etc. Too many people dabbling with notions they don’t apprehend.
However, the first to be blamed for the perpetual confusion regarding centrifugal force are the scientists themselves not being precise and consistent with their definitions and use of words in their text books.
Next to blame are a horde of self-acclaimed pseudo scientists, such as Kuykendall and many others, who exploited this absence of clarity by starting to claim, sometimes very aggressively, that it is all a hoax, fictitious, does not exist, etc., etc..
The usual mistakes/arguments are:
-1- Simply denying its existence.
Claiming the non-existence of centrifugal force, one also destroys the bedrock of Newtonian physics since it implies denying the validity of Newton’s Third Law. Forces ALWAYS come in pairs. For every centripetal force there is always a centrifugal force.
-2- Argumenting that assuming that it existed and it being equal and opposing in value to centripetal force it could not exist since it would cancel the centripetal force.
This shows also a fundamental misunderstanding of Newton’s third law. These two forces don’t act on the same object and hence can’t cancel each other.
-3- Assuming that the golf swing should be treated in a non-inertial rotating reference frame and hence considering centrifugal force as fictitious.
Completely confusing things. A golfer is simply operating in an (quasi) inertial reference frame and definitely subjected to Newton’s Law’s without having to introduce fictitious forces when operating in non-inertial rotating frames.
-4- Considering, like holeout,
Inertia is NOT a force, it is an intrinsic property of matter. It is the name given to the characteristic that all matter resists having its motion changed. It is simply a descritption of a property for which we have no real explanation.
For those, quite many, who deny the existence of inertial forces, such as centrifugal force, why not have someone drop a brick on your head from quite some height, and if you survive and still convinced, please, tell the world that inertial forces don’t exist.
It is realy pathetic that inertial forces are being considered as non existing by many. It is actually the most common force around. Whenever there is motion of matter of any kind there are inertial forces. Darned REAL forces, nothing fictious about them; they can do lots of damage.
Ask Brain Manzella if he considers the huge inertial forces generated by big waves smashing dikes to pieces as being a hoax, fictitious, non really existing. But keep at a save distance. He might just use that ‘non-existing’ ‘fictitious’ inertial centrifugal force generated with a golf club to show you his vigorous point of view.
rwh
New
Amen Corner,
I'm interested to know if you are just repeating hearsay or do you have evidence of the accuracy of this assertion from someone with personal knowledge? I'm not jumping on you; the reason I ask is that I, too, have heard this story for years, yet I've never seen any proof of its accuracy.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Not Amen Corner....but...
I was told that three scientists looked at it, and two thought it was gibberish and one said "I found no fault with it."
I was told that three scientists looked at it, and two thought it was gibberish and one said "I found no fault with it."
mandrin
New
DOCW3,
I am not aware of any. Fueling the confusion is the fact that in one text book one refers to it as a fictitious force and in another as a real reaction force. Hence, depending on the reference consulted, one might conclude that science considers it either real or fictitious. The only time I have come across a clear description of this confusing dual usage is in Wikipedia.
Ringer just doesn't realise how unscientific his 'scientific' posts are. He can't even understand why it's better to use a hammer on a nail rather than using his hands.
As for CF force, the last time I checked, every universities' mechanics courses teaches it.
cheers,
daniel
As for CF force, the last time I checked, every universities' mechanics courses teaches it.
cheers,
daniel
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When we google for info, we have to be very very careful when reading and understanding it. Some definitions and explanations are definitely more useful than others.
http://physics.ship.edu/~mrc/astro/....gov/nasa/space/centrifugal/centrifugal5.html
And make sure it comes from a reputable source.
cheers,
daniel
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mandrin
New
Bigwill,
I have not forgotten your question, is just that I am trying to find the time to construe a convincing argument that centrifugal force is the driving force in a golf swing for obtaining the in-line condition without referring to Mach, Einstein, or even God playing dice with it all, simply using mathematics, universally being taught at universities all over the world.
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