Quote from Jack Nicklaus talking about Jim Flick

[drewyallop]

This is a quite obvious fact. The more a distal part is in a circular motion the faster it moves.
It does not suggest anything more than no matter if one wants arms to follow or to lead they will be swinging faster.

Cheers

I don't get the logic D. I think the implication of BM's statement is that if the arms lead the body they will accelerate faster than is the opposite case. Your statement seems to say that the arms will be swinging at the same acceleration regardless of the sequence.

 

[natep]

I think it's that the acceleration rate of the arms is greater than the acceleration rate of the torso in the MJ 1.68 thread.

Thorax is red, left arm is green.

Here's the thread:

http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17748-project-1-68-data-share-tug-tumble.html

 

[Dariusz J.]

I don't get the logic D. I think the implication of BM's statement is that if the arms lead the body they will accelerate faster than is the opposite case. Your statement seems to say that the arms will be swinging at the same acceleration regardless of the sequence.

That's right. If we assume that arms are leading the body, who would say they will accelerate faster if body does not cooperate ? I am perfectly sure arms resistance are somehow smaller than body resistance. Both elements are important, but according to simple physics arms cannot be more important then the body.
The optimal mechanical scenario is when body leads to some extent, then it changes direction (essence of parametric acceleration) enabling arms to accelerate per se. If one wants to use less inertial and automatic and more conscious and active -- it's his circus and his problems.

Cheers

 

[spktho]

'NOTHING IS REACTIONARY - EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE COORDINATED' Michael Jacobs

In the past, Dariusz didn't like me saying that I had been working on swinging the arms and club more and not being concerned with the body pivot because my interpretation of the swing starting from the ground up and using the body pivot led to poor sequencing. Michael's quote above really makes sense to me because each person may need to focus more on one aspect of the swing just to get the sequencing coordinated.

 

[Dariusz J.]

'NOTHING IS REACTIONARY - EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE COORDINATED' Michael Jacobs

In the past, Dariusz didn't like me saying that I had been working on swinging the arms and club more and not being concerned with the body pivot because my interpretation of the swing starting from the ground up and using the body pivot led to poor sequencing. Michael's quote above really makes sense to me because each person may need to focus more on one aspect of the swing just to get the sequencing coordinated.

Nothing is reactionary ? This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Everything is reactionary in a smaller or bigger extent. This is the essence of physics, biology and chemistry. Of entire life, one should say. Otherwise chaos rules everything. Even in quantum physics everything is reactionary as I remember.
Back to golf -- if I rotate externally my lead shoulder I am suspecting the arm's (humerus') reaction; if my rear hip rotates internally my knee will react; if I preset a joint I am forcing a reaction. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

Cheers

 

[lia41985]

Nothing is reactionary ? This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Everything is reactionary in a smaller or bigger extent. This is the essence of physics, biology and chemistry. Of entire life, one should say. Otherwise chaos rules everything. Even in quantum physics everything is reactionary as I remember.
Back to golf -- if I rotate externally my lead shoulder I am suspecting the arm's (humerus') reaction; if my rear hip rotates internally my knee will react; if I preset a joint I am forcing a reaction. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

Cheers

I.e. force coupling.

 

[spktho]

Nothing is reactionary ? This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Everything is reactionary in a smaller or bigger extent. This is the essence of physics, biology and chemistry. Of entire life, one should say. Otherwise chaos rules everything. Even in quantum physics everything is reactionary as I remember.
Back to golf -- if I rotate externally my lead shoulder I am suspecting the arm's (humerus') reaction; if my rear hip rotates internally my knee will react; if I preset a joint I am forcing a reaction. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

Cheers

I understand you're point; however, I don't think you understand the context that quote was used in.

As I think you said earlier that it's not really correct to think that if you swing your arms more to hit a golf ball then your body will automatically follow with a good pivot. That is the context the quote was in. Michael was generally saying a similar thing as all the components of the pivot, arm and club swinging need to be in coordination--proper sequencing.

 

[ej20]

Pivot is important because you won't maximise your distance potential without it but I agree that the arms and hands play a major role in the correct striking of a golf ball.The golf swing is not all pivot with dead arms and hands.Some may need to emphasize the swinging of the arms less than others but you have to swing the arms all the same.The arms move a lot more than the pivot on the backswing so they have to move a lot more than the pivot on the downswing to stay in sequence.

 

[Dariusz J.]

I understand you're point; however, I don't think you understand the context that quote was used in.

As I think you said earlier that it's not really correct to think that if you swing your arms more to hit a golf ball then your body will automatically follow with a good pivot. That is the context the quote was in. Michael was generally saying a similar thing as all the components of the pivot, arm and club swinging need to be in coordination--proper sequencing.

I won't argue good arguments as stated here. However, nothing will change the fact that the more distal a body part is the least (or the soonest if one wants) should be consciously active.

Pivot is important because you won't maximise your distance potential without it but I agree that the arms and hands play a major role in the correct striking of a golf ball.The golf swing is not all pivot with dead arms and hands.Some may need to emphasize the swinging of the arms less than others but you have to swing the arms all the same.The arms move a lot more than the pivot on the backswing so they have to move a lot more than the pivot on the downswing to stay in sequence.

A very good post.

Cheers

 

[Brian Manzella]

I think all of this is so simple....

A. Jim Flick used to teach something that at least in part, turned out to be very true.

B. 3D graphs beat the snot out of casio pics.

C. OBVIOUSLY the pivot is important. But the arms have gotten short shrift for the last 10-15 years.

 

[ZAP]

All I can say is I have never hit the ball better than since I stopped trying to hit it with my pivot and started trying to hit it with the club.

 

[jimmyt]

All I can say is I have never hit the ball better than since I stopped trying to hit it with my pivot and started trying to hit it with the club.

+1

 

[mjh116]

All I can say is I have never hit the ball better than since I stopped trying to hit it with my pivot and started trying to hit it with the club.

+1

+2

 

[Shot Limit]

+2

+3

 

[66er]

+3

+4

 

[Jared Willerson]

Fivesies

 

[jdswets]

When i was 17 (1990), I went to a Golf Digest School taught by Jim Flick, Paul Runyan, Mark Wood, Hank Johnson and Dick Drager. It's been said many times but Jim Flick was a first class guy.

I was going into my senior year of high school and looking to have a big year and TANKED. Not sure if it was the GD school or the fact that I pored over David Leadbetter's book, The Golf Swing. The year before, I was one of the better players in NJ and then i couldn't break 90 ----my conclusion: Lead-poisoning.

 

[grahler]

I think theres a lot to be said for the hands arms.
Another thing is we cannot escape balance. Balance is an automatic function the body (pivot if you will) will ALWAYS balance itself in response to the forces it experiences during golf or at any other time. If the hands intention of the player works a certain way with the weight of the club on those hands a lot of what people call a great pivot imo requires exactly zero effort.
So I think theres a lot to be learned from the hands guys.
Looking at how the club moves is too and the club is connected to the hands.
Pretty much could forget the body and play great golf but I don't think you can forget the hands and play great.
Just my thoughts on it.

 

[wulsy]

All I can say is I have never hit the ball better than since I stopped trying to hit it with my pivot and started trying to hit it with the club.

No offence, and I really mean than, but if you were to ask an ordinary guy on the street to evaluate that statement he would think you were taking the p*$$.

Trying to hit hit it with your pivot? Just shows the power of propaganda.

 

[wulsy]

Or the power of the Guru.

The Guru - Chori Chori (HQ) - YouTube