Shot Limit
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What do you mean by unorthodox? If it's repeatable enough for him to be on the PGA Tour, why isn't it good enough to win majors. DJ's swing is more orthodox?
I don't get this logic.
What does "orthodox" really mean?
Rickie or Dustin?
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What do you mean by unorthodox? If it's repeatable enough for him to be on the PGA Tour, why isn't it good enough to win majors. DJ's swing is more orthodox?
I don't get this logic.
What does "orthodox" really mean?
I'll let more knowledgeable people weigh in here, but I'll just say this: Rickie's release is extremely centrifugal. Under pressure, that's less reliable than a release that is more centripetal.
Lindsey Newman
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Fowler less unorthodox than Johnson?
I don't think either swings are unorthodox. For my money, I would take Fowler. I like his clubface positions and I think he has more of a swing as opposed to a bludgeon. As a player he has dominated play at every level. His putter can get wildly hot unlike Johnson and his finesse shots are sick. The putting is what separates '97 Els from 2011 Els and if you are not a great putter you cannot win. I think Fowlers future is brighter than Johnsons. As always JMO
I don't think either swings are unorthodox. For my money, I would take Fowler. I like his clubface positions and I think he has more of a swing as opposed to a bludgeon. As a player he has dominated play at every level. His putter can get wildly hot unlike Johnson and his finesse shots are sick. The putting is what separates '97 Els from 2011 Els and if you are not a great putter you cannot win. I think Fowlers future is brighter than Johnsons. As always JMO
Brian,
You would expect a "big right lean" to result in a head position that shifts well to the right during the backswing. But Rickie's doesn't.
natep
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His head moves most when hitting driver, different amounts depending on what video you look at.
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Richie3Jack
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To me, both guys have swings that are unorthodox so it's like splitting hairs when it comes to that. I prefer Dustin's swing over Rickie's because Rickie's path goes quite a bit out to the right among other things. Rickie did drive the ball great last year. He struggled with his accuracy in the beginning of this year, but I would say in the past 3 months or so he's been a top 25 driver of the ball on Tour.
For me, Dustin's enormous distance off the tee is what separates him from Rickie. Bubba said in a GOLF Magazine interview that Dustin is the longest on Tour into the wind. And he has done more than Rickie so far.
3JACK
For me, Dustin's enormous distance off the tee is what separates him from Rickie. Bubba said in a GOLF Magazine interview that Dustin is the longest on Tour into the wind. And he has done more than Rickie so far.
3JACK
Lindsey Newman
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Ok then, someone please define orthodox. Who's swing is orthodox and based on what freaking model (insert Grant Waite)? When will we ever learn?
Shot Limit
New
You lost me
Can you please enlighten me on the difference between a centrifugal release and a centripetal release and how you determine which type a golfer uses?
Can you please enlighten me on the difference between a centrifugal release and a centripetal release and how you determine which type a golfer uses?
faux_maestro
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Lindsey,
As you should know by now, Grant Waite IS the model by which ALL swings are measured.
Sincerely,
Grant Waite
faux_maestro
New
Dustin first has to prove he has the upstairs game. So far he's displayed he doesn't. He wouldn't be the first uber talented professional athlete to be missing the keyest ingredient of them all.
Not a big fan of the head-to-toe orange. Although, given his age, I certainly understand the subconscience influence.
Popularity > results... is it too early to make Kournikova comparisons?
Yes because DJ has actually won something.
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Richie3Jack
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Unorthodox to me means 'unusual.' Meaning in the term of a golf swing, they do things different from the way most good golfers swing the club. Rickie has a bit of a counter clockwise rotation of his forearm up until abou the halfway point of the backswing. That is unusual or 'unorthodox.' His clubhead is well outside his hands in the takeaway because of it then he has a very steep shaft angle as well. Again, a bit unusual or unorthodox.
This shouldn't be confused with 'bad.' It's what Rickie does to hit the ball well. The big thing is that he has PROVEN he can swing like this time after time after time. He has PROVEN that he can make some unorthodox moves and get great results.
Where most amateurs get messed up with this is that they think their unorthodox moves are just fine and that they just need to practice on the range to make them repeatable. The issue with that is that they have never PROVEN that they can make those unorthodox moves and get good results because those unorthodox moves may make it almost impossible for them to get consistently good results.
Conversely, where many teachers and swing gurus mess up is that they assume that every unorthodox move is bad when many times it has absolutely no affect on the bad shots a golfer is hitting. And they start immediately associating 'unorthodox' with 'bad.'
3JACK
Did Kournikova never win anything? Not being a butthead ( although my wife may argue that! ) - I really don't know, and I'm too damned lazy to look it up
Does hottest female athlete of all time count?
faux_maestro
New
In this discussion, no. Any other time, yes.
Lindsey Newman
New
3jack,
I get what your saying, but in reality the tolerances for orthodox are not defined. In every swing there is an idiosyncratic movement. I guess I am being a bit liberal, but really think about it. We have all spent so much of our golfing lives comparing ourselves and others to models. If I was honest as can be, I would say the "orthodox looking swing" would be something that looks like Elkington or Adam Scott.
Ultimately, I guess over the last few years, I have started to consider an unorthodox swing as something that does not create acceptable ball flight and orthodox something that does. Man! Have I changed, WOW.
I get what your saying, but in reality the tolerances for orthodox are not defined. In every swing there is an idiosyncratic movement. I guess I am being a bit liberal, but really think about it. We have all spent so much of our golfing lives comparing ourselves and others to models. If I was honest as can be, I would say the "orthodox looking swing" would be something that looks like Elkington or Adam Scott.
Ultimately, I guess over the last few years, I have started to consider an unorthodox swing as something that does not create acceptable ball flight and orthodox something that does. Man! Have I changed, WOW.
Richie3Jack
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I think unorthodox goes beyond the 'idiosyncratic movement' and more into the realm of very different from the norm. Furyk's swing is unorthodox because just don't see many people with that type of swing. Adam Scott? There are a lot of players with similar swings. In fact, Scott has been accused of copying Tiger's swing during the butch Harmon years.
I don't find anythign unusual or daring about calling Fowler's swing unorthodox because it is unorthodox. I think a lot of this is just the fear of people interpreting unorthodox as being 'wrong' or 'bad.' It's not that either.
I treat 'unorthodox' as something that most people cannot do consistently. and if they are having trouble with their swing, one needs to figure out if the unorthodox parts are causing them trouble. If so...fix it. If not...find the real culprit.
It's easy to see why people get brainwashed into thinking unorthodox = bad because that's the general way 'method' instructors teach. Something differs from what they interpret as orthodox, they change it regardless if it is causing the problems or not.
Having a 'model' can be useful in helping improve golfers. It just depends on how the teacher uses the model.
3JACK
mgranato
New
The comparison would be between RF and AK. And for the record, I think she wears orange A LOT BETTER...
Shot Limit
New
Absotively!
faux_maestro
New
The comparison would be between RF and AK. And for the record, I think she wears orange A LOT BETTER...
Took me a minute to figure out that "AK" wasn't Anthony Kim.....is that bad?
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