Say Whaaat?
- Thread starter mgranato
- Start date
- Status
Lindsey Newman
New
mgranato
New
This is what is so elusive for a certain group of people who like to show stills of the ball in the "center area" of face but still get a twist. "Does this look like a toe hit?" is the standard defense.
You can't know where the CG is from a still. You can't see where the CG is moving in 3D from a still. No wander they are still confused.
Here's a hint... when you see the clubhead twist from impact with the ball, the CG's were not aligned.
I saw that and watched it over and over. The first thought is that it was middle of the face, for whatever reason, but basically die to the camera angle.
However, running it backwards starting from impact and seeing where the ball touched the face, and comparing that spot to the whole face..it was actually considerably away from the center of the face, towards the toe.
drewyallop
New
And that should end the discussion. BTW see Tuxen at ASII discuss what happens when the ball is struck exactly in line with the COM but the path is not aligned with the COM.
Thanks wallop, and here was me thinking nobody understood me. JJ
I was hoping to hear that someone had challenged him to a duel.
No Aaron Burr's in the booth. Seriously to think that Miller has the right to spew heresy in the face of science because he was good at the game, is pure nonsense. Some of us spend countless hours seeking truth so we can pass it on to our students because teaching is a noble endeavor. And if you're addressing as many "students" as Johnny Miller, you have that responsibility too.
KWBehrs
New
Nope, I don't think that is being missed. I think deep down that's what everyone is pissed off about. What I think is being missed is that there is a great drinking game to be had while watching any golf tournament Johnny Miller is opening his mouth about.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I just watched the silliness my my boyhood idol, Johnny Miller.
Hey John......no, you can't.
Hey John......no, you can't.
Precisely. And this is not entirely esoteric information that one has to go very far to obtain any longer.
You know who hangs on every word these guys spew out? The same fools who fork over $80 bucks an hour to instructors who know nothing about impact or teaching or learning or...AKA P.T. Barnum's SUCKERS. The naiveté and gullibility of the golf market is astonishing. I watched a kid give a lesson to a guy who was formerly a NASA engineer recently. He had the shanks, hit maybe 5 balls on the face of the club the whole lesson (by total accident and after each one got a high five from the "teacher") and immediately scheduled another lesson!! This guy would swear Johhny Miller is a genius, I'm sure.
Lindsey Newman
New
Sadly DC, as you know so well, that type of teacher is more common in the PGA than not. It's a shame that the PGA of America accepts the dues from all of the great professionals that are in the PGA, but does nothing to protect their integrity.
The PGAs of this world just want more members, because more members = more money and more power. It's that simple and by the way, I know that for a fact in the case of 1 PGA which shall remain nameless.
PGA Professional means DF twat who coughs up his subscription every year and attend the minimum number of scaminars. They can KMA. Oh no, wait, then folks might think that ex tennis pro, ex basketball pro, ex ski instructor and all those wannabee experts know more than me. But the tragedy is all those folks can paiy their money, become PGA Qualified and claim to be bona fide golf pros. What a crazy world we have created.
PGA Professional means DF twat who coughs up his subscription every year and attend the minimum number of scaminars. They can KMA. Oh no, wait, then folks might think that ex tennis pro, ex basketball pro, ex ski instructor and all those wannabee experts know more than me. But the tragedy is all those folks can paiy their money, become PGA Qualified and claim to be bona fide golf pros. What a crazy world we have created.
JEREMY5577
New
I was working on bumpy back keep it back today, while next to me a group lesson was going on where the PGA professional was teaching how to swing with the hips. He would say loudly: "Do we swing with arms or hips!?" They would reply "hips!" And they would all move around awkwardly in unison. This might be fine for some, but during the whole lesson there was no mention of what to do with the arms except they are supposed to follow the hips. I remember having lessons like that, just moving the hips as much as possible and hoping the arms would slingshot around to hit the ball.
Dear JEREMY 5577,
Thanks for keeping 'Bumpy back, keep it back' alive at the range, and on this site.
I am just about 90 % back in shape after over a 3 month bout with the shingles closing my right eye and affecting my balance a bit.
But I now recognize the true blessing of a good day, and after playing golf Saturday with son #2, Greg, I have had a few more great days 'at the range' further studying the benefits of dynamic balance.
What I have found that is new to me at least, is the importance of the 'keep it back' phase, as I worked with my 6 foot 4 inch son with a 115 MPH swing. What I saw, and am anxious to MEASURE were the results of his swings that varied in 'how much' and 'how long' he was able to 'keep it back', and with only my eyes as the sensors, became convinced that the 'dispersion' control was enhanced when he 'kept it back' long enough for the arms, hands and club to 'seem' to be IN FRONT OF THE RIGHT HIP.
Conversely, and to me of much greater significance was the antithesis of this when his right hip left too early, and the arms, hands and club sort of detoured around the right hip as it sped to impact. The very thing being taught right next to you at the range.
My first order analysis of the 'keep it back' characteristic affirmed the increase in lower body dynamic stability due to the position and moment of inertia etc of the UPPER BODY during this critical period, but I am now working on an additional hypothesis that the 'integrated dynamics' and the kinematic sequencing is also enhanced positively, affecting both club head speed AND reduced dispersion, which IMO is becoming a major and desirable attribute of golfers.
So PLEASE keep testing 'Bumpy back, (and now with some additional emphasis and AWARENESS on) keep it back'. I think you will like it even better, because I think, your previous habits of how you released and rotated your hips before would, like my son Greg, have a tendency to NOT keep it back long enough for the integrated dynamics to sequence differently, and be as good as they could be.
Thanks for you efforts and comments,
art
Lindsey Newman
New
Art,
ThanK you for all of the information you have shared from your research.
I may have missed (in all the threads you have been a part of) some of the examples of highly visible tour players which utilize the "bumpy back, keep it back" technique. Do you have some players that come to mind (I do)?
Thanks in advance,
Lindsey
ThanK you for all of the information you have shared from your research.
I may have missed (in all the threads you have been a part of) some of the examples of highly visible tour players which utilize the "bumpy back, keep it back" technique. Do you have some players that come to mind (I do)?
Thanks in advance,
Lindsey
Last edited:
JEREMY5577
New
Art,
Glad to hear you're feeling better. BBKIB is something I will continue to use. Exactly how much preset I use depends on the shot and club selection. With driver using the most. Shot dispersion is unarguably better and distance seems easier to achieve. I'm still trying to sort out how much to use on shots that require the majority of my weight on the lead leg. But I think those are questions I will figure out as I experiment further. So far the added dynamic balance has helped me control the ball flight much better and hit shots I never used to try.
- Status