I saw it with my own eyes. Only adjustments were what Brian mentioned. I started hitting nice high baby draws (which I don't normally do) LONGER.
No drastic swing changes, just a few adjustments - bingo!.
Once again, thanks Brian!!!
Gary
Should Everyone Zero Out their Path & Clubface on TrackMan, and hit up on Drivers?
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
- Start date
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I saw it with my own eyes. Only adjustments were what Brian mentioned. I started hitting nice high baby draws (which I don't normally do) LONGER.
No drastic swing changes, just a few adjustments - bingo!.
Once again, thanks Brian!!!
Gary
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Are you serious?
No, I did acknowledge it.
I said I wasn't WORRIED about it.
There is less spin loft with a 4-iron than a wedge. But that wedge ain't gonna do you any good from 220.
Get it?
And, in the real world of my NO METHOD teaching, I see STRAIGHTER ball flight with reduced spin loft FROM HITTING UP.
I'll try it with a big left lean next time out and see if that causes some of the trouble you must be seeing.
What discussion?
You were full of it from the get go.
Problems with zeroing out path? I work for TrackMan. I don't identify myself as a S&T teacher, etc. etc.
You must be kidding me.
Bravado?
What a f-ing joke dude. You have that goofy-arse promo video on your site that makes any of my bravado look pretty tame.
Just get her pivot more dynamic, and she'll be fine.
Oh wait, you teach....
No, I did acknowledge it.
I said I wasn't WORRIED about it.
There is less spin loft with a 4-iron than a wedge. But that wedge ain't gonna do you any good from 220.
Get it?
And, in the real world of my NO METHOD teaching, I see STRAIGHTER ball flight with reduced spin loft FROM HITTING UP.
I'll try it with a big left lean next time out and see if that causes some of the trouble you must be seeing.
What discussion?
You were full of it from the get go.
Problems with zeroing out path? I work for TrackMan. I don't identify myself as a S&T teacher, etc. etc.
You must be kidding me.
Bravado?
What a f-ing joke dude. You have that goofy-arse promo video on your site that makes any of my bravado look pretty tame.
Just get her pivot more dynamic, and she'll be fine.
Oh wait, you teach....
I prefer my players to go one way or the other, it's my preference and in my non-teaching experience on tour ranges have seen it plenty.
Not sure what that's about, I don't teach anyone a big lean left. Thought you knew the pattern not the Golf Digest pictures.
Making up quotes again there Brian. I have no issue disclosing what I prefer but didn't think it appropriate nor that relevant, had I come back and said I teach everyone to hit a nice high cut would I not have still been saying I prefer to see a shape?
Thanks for visiting...
Let me finish that for you
... a system that I believe is sound, one that doesn't require a player to have every piece as many believe but whatever will improve ball flight. Compared to what I used to teach, fade moves to a hooker, hook moves to a slicer etc etc to improve ball flight briefly. Getting it done on the day, keeps them coming back that's for sure.
Every time I type on here I feel like I've wasted another 2 minutes of my life I could have spent productively.
Last edited:
Brian Manzella
Administrator
They are keeping score...and you are getting hammered.
Throwaway line #1:
"it is my preference"
That's quite a big come down from your original quote on zeroing out (bold by BManz):
Every teacher I have talked to about this thread and your rants, have agreed with me 100%. Getting a golfer's path/clubface numbers to zero is no harder than getting them to any other number.
While "zeroing out" might not be for everyone, I'll take it, and so would 99% of all golfers if they saw the ball fly with those numbers.
Throwaway line #2:
What quote did I make up?
You DID NOT IDENTIFY yourself as a S&Ter, because it would have hurt your cause in this non-debate. Period.
You used the "I work for TrackMan" because you thought it would.
Throwaway line #3:
"Thanks for visiting"
As in to throw off the dogs to what my comment was about, your next throughaway line...
Throwaway line #4:
"Bravado"
You should include "Passionate," another throwaway line to dismiss my knowledge and experience and TEACHING ABILITY.
You don't get to call names on this site and not get swatted into the third row.
Your video, on your website, is as over the top as anything I have ever said times 100.
And a little fruity, I may add.
Cool.
But it ain't winning any long-drive contests anytime soon.
Ah...here we go...
Throwaway line #5:
The direct shot.
At me.
On my site.
I really just fix people and make them better, don't knock it because you can''t do it.
You've never seen it, and you've gotten BAD SCOUTING REPORTS from other cultists, but I pretty much back up my big mouth.
I have seen the literal destruction in the swings of folks that have been taught your stuff. It might work for a small percentage of folks, but that's as far as it will ever go.
And you can't handle that.
So you throw stones, but whiff every time.
Just like the rest of the cultists.
This site should be about how to get the obvious done, but because you and others have a lot invested in a method, and that goes for all the methods out there, you have to come on this site and try and take your shot at me, my teachers, and our philosophies.
Then you ripped to pieces by me, and you go run to some other goofy sites and say what I bad host I am, and how I am a blowhard and all the rest.
Well, sir, I took a lot of that for a long time. It stopped the other day.
I am firing at all comers right now.
And, btw, come with something better than that last post.
WEAK!
Throwaway line #1:
"it is my preference"
That's quite a big come down from your original quote on zeroing out (bold by BManz):
Every teacher I have talked to about this thread and your rants, have agreed with me 100%. Getting a golfer's path/clubface numbers to zero is no harder than getting them to any other number.
While "zeroing out" might not be for everyone, I'll take it, and so would 99% of all golfers if they saw the ball fly with those numbers.
Throwaway line #2:
What quote did I make up?
You DID NOT IDENTIFY yourself as a S&Ter, because it would have hurt your cause in this non-debate. Period.
You used the "I work for TrackMan" because you thought it would.
Throwaway line #3:
"Thanks for visiting"
As in to throw off the dogs to what my comment was about, your next throughaway line...
Throwaway line #4:
"Bravado"
You should include "Passionate," another throwaway line to dismiss my knowledge and experience and TEACHING ABILITY.
You don't get to call names on this site and not get swatted into the third row.
Your video, on your website, is as over the top as anything I have ever said times 100.
And a little fruity, I may add.
Cool.
But it ain't winning any long-drive contests anytime soon.
Ah...here we go...
Throwaway line #5:
The direct shot.
At me.
On my site.
I really just fix people and make them better, don't knock it because you can''t do it.
You've never seen it, and you've gotten BAD SCOUTING REPORTS from other cultists, but I pretty much back up my big mouth.
I have seen the literal destruction in the swings of folks that have been taught your stuff. It might work for a small percentage of folks, but that's as far as it will ever go.
And you can't handle that.
So you throw stones, but whiff every time.
Just like the rest of the cultists.
This site should be about how to get the obvious done, but because you and others have a lot invested in a method, and that goes for all the methods out there, you have to come on this site and try and take your shot at me, my teachers, and our philosophies.
Then you ripped to pieces by me, and you go run to some other goofy sites and say what I bad host I am, and how I am a blowhard and all the rest.
Well, sir, I took a lot of that for a long time. It stopped the other day.
I am firing at all comers right now.
And, btw, come with something better than that last post.
WEAK!
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Here's the problem folks; until someone can QUANTIFY what the standard deviation is at certain spin lofts there really can't be a answer. HOWEVER i would bet money that the greater deviation from having less spin loft from hitting up on the driver isn't going to be dramatically higher than the deviation from a normal drive at say hitting "level" and 800-900rpm more spin.
Now you have the risk/reward, let's say you can be up to 10% worse in deviation but you will also average 20-25 yards further IN THE AIR (not counting roll). On today's courses unless you are playing in super duper rough i think hitting up is worth the POSSIBLE high deviation.
If you need to hit it a bit straight and give up some yardage, instead of hitting level or slightly down on the driver use this other straighter club called a "3 wood" LOL.
Now you have the risk/reward, let's say you can be up to 10% worse in deviation but you will also average 20-25 yards further IN THE AIR (not counting roll). On today's courses unless you are playing in super duper rough i think hitting up is worth the POSSIBLE high deviation.
If you need to hit it a bit straight and give up some yardage, instead of hitting level or slightly down on the driver use this other straighter club called a "3 wood" LOL.
roll - gybe
New member
I was actually enjoying the discussion, but I think that post from Brian takes us into book burning territory...
No one is going to want to share an opinion now...
No one is going to want to share an opinion now...
Brian Manzella
Administrator
It is sort of like watching a dirty team play football.
They push and shove and spit in your eye, and for the most part, you take it.
But once in a while you push back, and you get flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct.
You have to try to understand, this is a business, and my competitors are free to post on here unless they totally act the fool.
This guy is coming close.
He started this so-called debate on the other boring thread.
And as sure as the sun sets in the west, you'd like to take your shot.
Go ahead, make my day.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Who's ranting here?
This one
Passion is what it's all about and it's clear you have plenty and I haven't dismissed anything.
Good though isn't it?
Yes, apologies for that, you seem to bring out the worst in me.
You know what Jim, you might just be right there and I guess that's what we need to find out.
Shot Limit
New
Holy Sh*t.
Jaridyard:
You calling me a sucker for believing in Brian and "coming back" for more? That is pretty lame, dude. I'm glad you're not my teacher.
The way I see it, a "method" teacher is the one who will "keep them coming back" since the "method" takes time to learn and master. Continuous lessons are required by the student to make sure he/she has grasped the "method".
I can't speak for all the weekend warriors out there, but for this one, getting a lesson from someone who will take what you already have, tweaking it and getting better results is gold!
Another point for Bmanz. NEXT!
Shot Limit
New
+1.
Wow. That takes some pretty serious reading between the lines to get to that point.
roll - gybe
New member
I'm not sure what all that was in respone to me.
I thought this was an interesting discussion, but then there were f-bombs and rants and all that. No one is going to want to get involved with all that... I did want to hear more about what jaridyard was saying.
I'm interested in both your views so I can hit the ball better (not so I can fire off some "score" about who wins and loses).
This margin of error thing is interesting. I think Jim mentioned that measuring it would be difficult in a statisitically significant way. That's a great issue from a statistical standpoint. jaridyard's thesis is interesting though.
So far, it's distance vs accuracy, right? Can we summarize where the we are on that trade-off?
I thought this was an interesting discussion, but then there were f-bombs and rants and all that. No one is going to want to get involved with all that... I did want to hear more about what jaridyard was saying.
I'm interested in both your views so I can hit the ball better (not so I can fire off some "score" about who wins and loses).
This margin of error thing is interesting. I think Jim mentioned that measuring it would be difficult in a statisitically significant way. That's a great issue from a statistical standpoint. jaridyard's thesis is interesting though.
So far, it's distance vs accuracy, right? Can we summarize where the we are on that trade-off?
roll - gybe
New member
Just one thing here on this point.
I think that getting truely good at something takes time, hard work, and attention to detail. Even with good information, you won't make long-lasting changes with a tweak.
Totally different topic, but I was inspired to respond to that for some reason.
roll - gybe
New member
Would love to recap before it does. Maybe an opinion neutral set of trade-offs?
The whole debate/ argument is about i'm right your wrong, my method or my no method is right ,yours is wrong, is the very thing from the beginning of golf instruction that makes ordinary golfers wonder, wtf is wrong with teaching pros?
Both sides are fighting for their beliefs ,caught in the middle are the people who want to get better instruction. As adults i think we could dispense with the political mudslinging/negative campaigning. Just tell us how good your teaching/instruction is and show us a live example of it.
Critizing the competition doesn't prove your better at your profession, out teaching them, out knowledging them, out resulting them, that will do it. I think Brian does all that and more.
THE QUESTION IS WHY AREN'T YOU JARIDYARD?
Both sides are fighting for their beliefs ,caught in the middle are the people who want to get better instruction. As adults i think we could dispense with the political mudslinging/negative campaigning. Just tell us how good your teaching/instruction is and show us a live example of it.
Critizing the competition doesn't prove your better at your profession, out teaching them, out knowledging them, out resulting them, that will do it. I think Brian does all that and more.
THE QUESTION IS WHY AREN'T YOU JARIDYARD?
roll - gybe
New member
Footwedge, you are also antagonizing. I am trying to get something out of this...
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