Sustaining the line of compression
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
No, ready, if THAT were the question, he'd be over at Lynn's.
He's here because he has a platform.
Now as for the LOC, I think you can fufill the STLOC with a COMPLETELY detached clubhead.
Even one you THROW at the ball from across the room.
He's here because he has a platform.
Now as for the LOC, I think you can fufill the STLOC with a COMPLETELY detached clubhead.
Even one you THROW at the ball from across the room.
It seems to me that the bond between the clubhead and shaft was partially loose and the force of the blow on that particular shot finished the job. The epoxy bond would have had to be strong enough that the clubhead would not twist before impact, or there would not have been enough force available to drive the ball 300 yards. If the clubhead was completely loosened before impact it is likely that the clubhead would have been in the process of leaving the shaft prior to impact.
mandrin
New
Brian, please, have another look at my post below.
Dave Kelly at his first participation this weekend in a PGA event - the Ford Championship at Doral - had an interesting experience on the tenth hole.
The head of his driver, a Nike, Sasquatch, completely separated from the shaft and was found 70 yards further away in the fairway. The driving distance still quite interesting - 300 yards.
My simple question for the TGM experts - how did he maintain the line of compression through impact with a head completely detaching from the shaft?
Could it just be that this is a clear confirmation of the laboratory tests done by a group of eminent English scientists behind “Search for the Perfect Swing”.
What does it really constitute? A question, a very descent question, no attack on anyone.
It seems somewhat odd that a question is considered an attack on the person of HK.
What is it in TGM that makes followers feel so insecure and aggressive?
Is it perhaps they have some doubts and don’t want questions?
I don’t dislike Homer at all, quite the contrary.
However, nothing is cast in stone.
Why should it be so?
Brian, so...
[8D]
mandrin
New
Tongzilla,
A.Cochran and his group of scientists did exactly that type of experiment. They used a 2-wood with a hinged joint just above the shaft.
The hinged club through impact, despite being completely free, showed hardly any back bending and the flight pattern is just like when hit by a normal club.
For anyone, so interested, it is not difficult to reproduce these experiments. Introduce a small hinge just above the clubhead and either buy some time on a golf robot or do the tests yourself.
Burner
New
If I have to dignify your outpourings of anti-Homer tripe, then I would answer your question as follows.
Simple: the sustaining of the line of compression maintained the contact between clubhead and shaft.
Only when the ball left the clubface did the clubhead leave the shaft.
However, in your case I much prefer the ad hominem attack approach, as it seems wholly appropriate to me that the biter should also get bitten once in a while.
Burner
New
Wrong again, my Porcine friend.quote:Originally posted by mandrin
Burner,
It is all too common for those who don’t quite have it to rely on various ad hominem techniques. I don’t quite mind, as it is all some have as ultimate contribution. [^]
Nevertheless, just in case, anything else to say? Perhaps not, since the question posed initially is likely completely beyond your grasp. So just hang on and who knows one of these days....
However, I will now follow efnef's excellent advice and not enter your pig pen again.
bts
New
To me, the question is no different from "My simple question for the TGM experts - how did he maintain the line of compression through impact with a head ("seeming as if" it's) completely detaching from the shaft?", which is claimed to be "very descent".
Then the "scientist" ask if that head "("seeming as if" it's) completely detaching from the shaft" can confirm one attached to a shaft with a free hinge, which could be a "very descent" one, too.
I'll take a stab. I think it has to do with COAM and centripetal forces......... Basically in simple terms the force generated by the golf swing is not much different than that of David's slingshot of Goliath lore. Swing the slingshot round n round and the rock fires out at a tangent at high velocity. The clubhead is like the slingshot rock acting as if there was no shaft there, but normally because it is glued to the shaft, doesn't fly off at this tangent. The fact that the head came loose is just a mere example of a poorly secured clubhead, but otherwise should behave no differently than one that was still attached to the shaft at the moment of truth.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Can't I throw a ROCK at Mandrin's head and hit him DEAD SQUARE and STLOC???
As opposed to having a soft heart and just grazing him???
As opposed to having a soft heart and just grazing him???
mandrin
New
I better get out of the way for this truly fascinating experiment.
Brian, I get the impression from your post that you are on a different planet than most with regard to STLOC. Most TGMer’s will have some difficulty understanding your post.
Homer used extensively the dictionary and states in the introduction:
“And the dictionary is generally considered a standard of precision.”
Therefore I used the dictionary:
sustain >verb
1. strengthen or support physically or mentally.
2. bear (the weight of an object).
3. support from below; keep from falling or sinking.
- ORIGIN Latin sustinere, from tenere 'hold'.
To sustain something implies some form of support. Therefore how do you, the golfer, support compression with a free moving object?
Tom Bartlett
Administrator
I think the confusion here is between the Line Of Compression</u> and the Conservation Of Momentum</u>.
Line of compression; bullet hole through a basketball, the bullet wasn't "attached" to anything. But, it created a line of compression.
Conservation Of Momentum; two colliding objects cannot separate at a speed greater than the speed of approach. If you throw a baseball at a bowling ball it will move (the bowling ball) a certain distance. If you are still holding on to the baseball when it hits the bowling ball it will move a greater distance (keep both impact speeds the same) separation speeds will differ.
Now, I know you are going to quote search for the perfect swing. That the club head is acting as if it is on a string by impact. Here is a test; Tie a club head to a string and make a swing trying to take as big a divot as possible. Now, try it with a "regular" golf club. Which one made a longer deeper divot and why?
Line of compression; bullet hole through a basketball, the bullet wasn't "attached" to anything. But, it created a line of compression.
Conservation Of Momentum; two colliding objects cannot separate at a speed greater than the speed of approach. If you throw a baseball at a bowling ball it will move (the bowling ball) a certain distance. If you are still holding on to the baseball when it hits the bowling ball it will move a greater distance (keep both impact speeds the same) separation speeds will differ.
Now, I know you are going to quote search for the perfect swing. That the club head is acting as if it is on a string by impact. Here is a test; Tie a club head to a string and make a swing trying to take as big a divot as possible. Now, try it with a "regular" golf club. Which one made a longer deeper divot and why?
mandrin
New
Tom, I see you that your opinion is similar to Brian’s. This approach is however very different from what I remember of previous discussions. Fairly sure that most TGMer’s don’t understand it this way.
Don’t mix too many components into the soup. Your reference to divots is correct in itself but does not have any bearing on the problem of collision of clubhead with ball.
I realize that it is irritating but our intuition is no guide in this matter. As a comparison think about the fascinating gyroscopic effect, completely beyond any intuition or common sense reasoning.
Tom Bartlett
Administrator
The earth is just a bigger ball! Let's use a bowling ball instead. Would your hinged club behave differently than a solid shaft when impacting a bowling ball?
mandrin
New
EdZ, I am fairly sure that you don’t quite agree with either Brian or Tom on this subject.
You references in posts to ‘increased mass’ indicate that you subscribe to the normal way of viewing “ supporting the line of compression” by use of the shaft applying pressure through the shaft onto the ball.
This is a feeling which permeates golf since a very long time. Some have written books with this idea as central theme. For instance, Ike Handy - ‘How to hit a Golf Ball Straight’ or Mindy Blake with - ‘Golf: The Technique Barrier’ and ‘The Golf Swing of the Future’.
People refer to getting their body into the swing or like you and Lynn, refer to feeling slow and heavy through impact or to increasing the mass factor. Mindy Blake, an engineer/golf author believed in hitting slow, heavy and deliberate and felt this approach to be superior to a quick, high speed swing.
These kind of notions are deeply incrusted into the minds of many golfers / instructors and yet it is not corresponding with the elementary physics of collisions.
EdZ, it is very simple to solve the riddle. Have a golf club made with a small light weight free hinge above the clubhead, and ideally buy some time on one of the various golf robots around, or second best, do the test with an experienced golfer having a repeatable golf swing, and an ‘open mind’.
If a golf ball is struck in identical manner with the same clubhead speed than it should have the same departure velocity. If not, some impact conditions were not the same. Very likely slightly different impact alignments which are so very critical with regard to spin and trajectory.
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