Sustaining the line of compression

[Tom Bartlett]

Don't put words in my mouth again mandrin. I didn't say force was not a factor. Can you read??? THE ACCELERATION OF AN OJECT IS DEPENDANT ON BOTH FORCE AND MASS. You think mass doesn't matter. Yet, you just said the bus hits it further. So, you finally agree, mass does matter. Thanks.

 

[mandrin]

quote:Originally posted by Tom Bartlett

Don't put words in my mouth again mandrin. I didn't say force was not a factor. Can you read??? THE ACCELERATION OF AN OJECT IS DEPENDANT ON BOTH FORCE AND MASS. You think mass doesn't matter. Yet, you just said the bus hits it further. So, you finally agree, mass does matter. Thanks.

0.00004 %.

 

[hiroshiro]

Indeed! I believe that the difference would be about 0.000016 mph.

In any event, despite the tone of this thread, it is a very interesting point to be debated. The Golfing Machine has helped me improve my Swing more than any other system, but just because something is written in it doesn't necessarily mean it's correct.

I don't have the knowledge or intellect to defend a position on this "free body" issue, but I suspect that whether or not the "heavy hit" results in more distance, attempting to sustain the line of compression through impact results in consistently better impact geometries than a swing with throwaway.

Still, I kinda would like to know if the heavy hit is myth or reality.

Hiro

 

[Tom Bartlett]

So you say. You ain't sold me yet with that experiment by those Limeys. Swinging a club around like a sling isn't the same as swinging like a golfer (form III lever) with the force between the fulcrum and the weight.[:X][]

 

[mandrin]

quote:Originally posted by hiroshiro

Indeed! I believe that the difference would be about 0.000016 mph.

In any event, despite the tone of this thread, it is a very interesting point to be debated. The Golfing Machine has helped me improve my Swing more than any other system, but just because something is written in it doesn't necessarily mean it's correct.

I don't have the knowledge or intellect to defend a position on this "free body" issue, but I suspect that whether or not the "heavy hit" results in more distance, attempting to sustain the line of compression through impact results in consistently better impact geometries than a swing with throwaway.

Still, I kinda would like to know if the heavy hit is myth or reality.

Hiro

Hiro,
It is a myth,
but anything whatsoever improving you swing is valuable,
notwithstanding not being sanctified by science.
Some mix everything, but golf and science are two.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by mandrin

MizunoJoe, do you have some additional arguments to try to convince me of your point of view?

During the 0.0005 sec impact interval you as a golfer are not important anymore. All the good conditions have been hopefully prepared prior to impact. The clubhead is now completely on its own to cash in on your good intentions.

If what you say is true, only impact velo would determine ball speed. Let's take two examples - Hank Kuehne has a clubhead speed of 134 mph and a ball speed of 185, while Phil Mickelson has a head speed of 120, but a ball speed of 178, using drivers with virtually identical COR(max allowed), and measurements taken when both used the Pro V1 ball.

Let's look further - we know that ball speed is 70% of impact velo plus 100% of separation velo.

Kuehne's separation velo = 184 - (.7 x 134) = 91 mph
Mickel's separation velo = 178 - (.7 x 120) = 94 mph

If the golfer doesn't matter, how does Mick get 3 more mph separation velo from 14 mph less impact velo?

 

[birdie_man]

Have any of you guys felt full compression?

I don't think it comes when you happen to swing a little faster than the other shots....

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

Have any of you guys felt full compression?

What is "full", and how would you know if you did?

 

[mandrin]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by mandrin

MizunoJoe, do you have some additional arguments to try to convince me of your point of view?

During the 0.0005 sec impact interval you as a golfer are not important anymore. All the good conditions have been hopefully prepared prior to impact. The clubhead is now completely on its own to cash in on your good intentions.

If what you say is true, only impact velo would determine ball speed. Let's take two examples - Hank Kuehne has a clubhead speed of 134 mph and a ball speed of 185, while Phil Mickelson has a head speed of 120, but a ball speed of 178, using drivers with virtually identical COR(max allowed), and measurements taken when both used the Pro V1 ball.

Let's look further - we know that ball speed is 70% of impact velo plus 100% of separation velo.

Kuehne's separation velo = 184 - (.7 x 134) = 91 mph
Mickel's separation velo = 178 - (.7 x 120) = 94 mph

If the golfer doesn't matter, how does Mick get 3 more mph separation velo from 14 mph less impact velo?

Did you get these numbers form TV SwingVision information given during PGA tournaments? I remember reading somewhere that they were considered to be completely out of wack with reality. [:0]

However, considering for a moment, for discussion sake, that they have some validity what exactly is your conclusion? There are also other factors to consider such as the all-important dissimilar impact alignments of club face for different golfers, measuring errors, etc.

MizunoJoe, you are free to believe any bit of information which bends your way and this is only natural. I hope however that you put at least the same weight into information from serious well known scientists.

I have put forward detailed calculations to support my views which are open to scrutiny for anyone. Just take them to any qualified person for verification. Unlike golf science has this interesting feature to use a universal language, ie., mathematics.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by mandrin


Did you get these numbers form TV SwingVision information given during PGA tournaments? I remember reading somewhere that they were considered to be completely out of wack with reality. [:0]

However, considering for a moment, for discussion sake, that they have some validity what exactly is your conclusion?

So mandrin, your scientific answer to my question is that you remember something somewhere? [8)]

Are you serious in asking what the conclusion is? [:0] Obviously, if Mickelson's clubhead is fourteen mph slower at impact, yet three mph faster at separation, he's doing something different in that .0005 interval than Kuehne, which clearly refutes your contention that the golfer has no influence through the impact interval.

 

[mandrin]

MizunoJoe, I am happy that it is all very clear to you since then you can explain it to me. What exactly are these golfer doing differently and how is this going to affect impact?

I am all ears, ready to learn form a very distinguished colleague. I am excited with the prospect to learn something new, defying all that science and physics stands for.

 

[Biffer]

The difference could be attributed to "smash factor", hitting the ball on the sweetspot. So, the same golfer swinging at the same speed with the same identical club and contacting the ball at different locations on the clubface could register different ball speeds. The highest speed would occur when the ball is struck on the sweetspot. I help a friend of mine, two days a week, with his launch monitor fitting business. We fit drivers only. We work in an age restricted community so most of our tests are done with players over the age of 55. Some of the small frame players, who may only swing at around 80mph to 85mph produce a smash factor of 150, while some of the larger frame players, who swing over 100mph only register 145 or less. Most players we test that have decent golf swings are in the 145 to 150 range.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by mandrin

I am all ears... I am excited with the prospect to learn something new...

We have an old saying in Okla - Don't try to give me that bull crap, I've got horse hockey in every pocket.

 

[mandrin]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by mandrin

I am all ears... I am excited with the prospect to learn something new...

We have an old saying in Okla - Don't try to give me that bull crap, I've got horse hockey in every pocket.

It appears that the only argument you have been able to find, to sustain your thesis, is to invoke an old saying involving bull crap.

I had hoped that you were capable of maintaining a discussion on a more elevated level.

To resume, we have so far some information gleaned from TV and a bit of bull crap.

MizunoJoe, anything else to add to convince me of your point of view?

 

[mcflog]

Impact is half a millisecond which is 0.0005. Unfortunately he's right this time.

 

[birdie_man]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

Have any of you guys felt full compression?

What is "full", and how would you know if you did?

Sorry....

I meant- "full" as in....as good as I can.

...

Sounds different, feels different, goes further.

...

 

[MizunoJoe]

By swinging into a straight left leg with a firm as well as flat left wrist, resistance to clubhead decceleration through impact is enhanced, giving a superior separation velo. A player can have the identical swing speed as another, yet hit the ball 40 yds further, because he compresses the ball better. The only possible answer is that his machine is different through impact.

 

[Tom Bartlett]

Mandrin,

I can only go by research done by others to determine the impact interval. YOU are saying .0005 or 5/10,000ths of a second. Several physics sites on the net say differently. But, according to you, anyone who reads others scientific data is stupid...

"When a triple beam balance was used to measure the mass of a golf ball, the result was 0.04569 kg and the standard acceleration of a golf club by a professional player is about 100 mph or 44.73 m/s. This speed of the club produces a speed of the golf ball which on average is about 170 mph or 76.08 m/s. The moment of impact lasts for 5 milliseconds which is .005 seconds."

"The United States Golf Association regulates the mass of golf balls to keep it at a constant 45.9 g (1.62 oz.). Once the ball is in flight, several forces act upon it. Some of these forces include: gravity, aerodynamic drag, and aerodynamic lift. Each force acts independently on the moving golf ball. For a greater distance to be achieved, one needs to increase the acceleration of the ball by increasing the force with which the ball is struck or swinging the club faster. The golf club only comes into contact with the ball for approximately 1/200 of a second. The face of the club is grooved so that during contact with the ball it can grip the ball and create backspin which enables aerodynamic lift."

 

[palmreader]

quote:Originally posted by mcflog

Impact is half a millisecond which is 0.0005. Unfortunately he's right this time.

mcflog, why is it "unfortunate" he is right? Just curious. Is it because he is questioning some aspects of the the bible (I mean yellow book)?

 

[Biffer]

Just a note. From SFTPS. Cochran and Stobbs state that the time it takes the ball to leave the clubface is .0005, about half a millisecond. They go on to say that it doesn't make any difference if the clubhead is accelerating, slowing down, or moving at a constant speed, the ball will still go the same distance.