Target-ward Left Shoulder Moves, and Moving Centers

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Kevin Shields

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Virtuoso said:
If you mean getting the arms shoved out in front of the ball with too much wrist cock still loaded, then yes. Also, I've sucked the arms too far behind me in transition, lost the radius, flattened the plane too much, and had to spin the hips to steepen the plane to the ball. I've turned the shoulders too flat on the back swing, with too much sternum shift to the right, and then lifted the arms to the sky, so i could keep my butt pointed at the target on the downswing hip shift, and then radically rotate my forearms to get the face squared up. And, I've glued my arms together to get pitch elbow, but drove my hips too much toward the ball of my left foot at transition, gotten too shallow and heeled the piss out of it. And, I've gone steep backswing shoulder plane and steep arm swing, and then rocked my hips out from under me to recover the plane. And, I've tried to copy Trevino poorly, and just wiped across the thing. And, etc, etc... These are just a very small percentage of the things I've tried to improve my swing and understand the swing better generally so that I can help my students. I've essentially had to do every combination really poorly and throw them out to end up with something pretty decent.



Well, I would clarify by saying that I don't believe the hands should be held to an arbitrarily tight circle as the downswing progresses as much as I mean this: as the levers start unfolding and energy is being transmited across the system to the clubhead, the combined instantaneous center of the levers has stabilized and the outside orbit looks more like a circle and less like an elipse. In other words, this is an inevitable consequence of any swing, even poorly organized ones.

This does not mean that i think the arms should be held tight to the body through impact and past (the whole idea of "squaring the face angle with the chest rotation" type deal).

I really think, with a properly organized swing sequence, you should be able to just explode both arms outward from the combined center in a natural extension through impact. Keeping them "glued" in makes no sense in an "athletic" context.
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Cool post V
 
rainbow_in_the_dark

rainbow_in_the_dark

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galvin said:
just to clarify, B&P do say that if they would make up a pattern more built for speed it wouldn't look their current s&t model. I think Bennet mentions (I know I've seen it on youtube or infomercial) higher hands, more pullback etc. Remember they think their current model is the best for the combination of length and accuracy. I also believe the center they are really concerned with is the one between the shoulders. the head is simply a reference point, not a component.

Ok, so regarding the straight line kicker vs. from the side kicker football analogy. What is the therm for describing the increase in speed when you kick from the inside??

thanks!:)
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but place kicking and swinging a golf club are different actions.

I can see where soccer-style results in longer distances, and it's been proven.

having a hard time understanding why more inside in golf = greater distance. havent seen evidence either.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Home Run!

galvin said:
...so regarding the straight line kicker vs. from the side kicker football analogy. What is the therm for describing the increase in speed when you kick from the inside??
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They walk back about 10 yards, and run up to the ball, stick their left foot in the ground, and THEN rotate.
 
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galvin

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Oh, I def understand about running up to the ball in kicking. Used to play soccer myself. I still have a feeling that without the running start, you can kick the ball further from the inside than kicking in a straight line, would you agree? I'm not saying this has the same implications in golf however but just thinking out loud here, it would seem that the sweetspot travels a greater distance from the 3rd parallell (p6 in mac lingo) if it's inside the plane line than closer to it. Like I said, thinking out loud so feel free to enlighten me!
 
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Brian Manzella

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There is MATH, and then there is ZICK!

MAc O'Grady used to talk about the speed you would pick up on the downswing (and maybe he said backswing too) by having your hands in close to your body. Like a Figure skater. Hands in FAST SPIN. Hands out SLOW SPIN.

So Dr. Zick is talking about starting to apply force at the hands (across the shaft) just before the club is vertical for the last time pre impact.

My question was this:

"So Doc, it seems like to start the FATS at that time—to get the 15% speed boost you talked about—that my hands would get further away from my body then, negating the figure skater phenomenon. what should we do??"

He laughed.

"The benefit of adding the FATS at the right moment FAR out weighs the figure skater phenomenon's little rotational speed gain."

You see MORADist, I have been teaching that ever since.

Do ya'll?
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
gmbtempe said:
So I am better off listening to a physicists rather than get lessons from Mac O' Grady? Does this Zick guy give lessons?
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I'd rather listen to Dr. Zick than some golf pro about physics, yes.

You guys are too much. Really.

You all have you little heroes, and they are "untouchable" because nobody will show up for a teaching exibition or anything of that kind.

I am NOT singling out Mac.

This is about golf teachers USING SCIENCE as a draw, and the science is FLAWED, WRONG or JUST SORTA KINDA CLOSE.

That is NOT good enough for me.

I'd rather take a lesson from ME. :cool:
 
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spktho

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Kevin Shields said:
I personally would rather gather info from guys like this and build my own swing based on said info.
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That's why you're one of best teachers/players around!

The method guys may be a bit lazy, just don't know any other way than memorizing the steps of the method, or have been successfully brainwashed to believe said method is the best way.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Virtuoso said:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjEJgC5nYXw&feature=related[/media]

Sam Snead forgetting to demonstrate Jorgensen's lateral left shoulder move. But don't get me wrong, I like Hogan's move better (and thus Jorgensen recommendation) because he has better control of his static friction under the left foot. Clearly Snead does not have much friction, due to lack of downward force/pressure/weight, and foot slips considerably.
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Is there a reason why he doesn't move like Hogan?
 
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spktho

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birdie_man said:
What does this mean?
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I'll take a shot:

At any 2 or more snapshot points during the swing, the center axis is not in the same place. And if all the axis points are strung together throughout the whole swing, then the center axis would look to be moving in a helical (spiral--like spiral staircase) motion.
 
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greenfree

Banned
spktho said:
I'll take a shot:

At any 2 or more snapshot points during the swing, the center axis is not in the same place. And if all the axis points are strung together throughout the whole swing, then the center axis would look to be moving in a helical (spiral--like spiral staircase) motion.
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Is that what the Tasmanian Devil does when he get's going? :eek: ...lol
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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spktho said:
I'll take a shot:

At any 2 or more snapshot points during the swing, the center axis is not in the same place. And if all the axis points are strung together throughout the whole swing, then the center axis would look to be moving in a helical (spiral--like spiral staircase) motion.
Click to expand...

Very cool. I think I can see it.

Interesting concept.

Thanks spk.

...

BTW good posting Virtuoso...didn't read your stuff until now.

greenfree said:
Is that what the Tasmanian Devil does when he get's going? ...lol
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Love Looney Toons. I have it bookmarked daily on my cable box!! (for real)
 
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