The anti-tumble?

[lia41985]

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Fair to say?

Just saying, that's about as outward as you'll see a good/great player's hand path go, no?

Would love to see his VSP #'s...

Could be a great case study on "VSP management"...

Do you normally see a good/great player whose downswing hand path is that far "over" his backswing hand path?

He can do whatever the heck he wants with the ball but is this pattern particularly well suited to cutting the ball?

Or not...

The face is turned down at some point:

Was he saying "turn it down"?

It's a good thought and is sometimes the same as tumble

This movement requires ulnar deviation that some are constantly conflating with "crossing over" the release. Why the stigma? His body does what it needs to do to make the club work like a club so that he can input the right "numbers" into the ball and light up Trackman/scoreboards.

Golf still is what the ball does.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Short hitter, I also would reserve my judgement till I saw some numbers. Club head path appears to be very close to hand path also still slightly under.

 

[Kevin Shields]

That being said, I did play with him a number of times on the minis and he played a noticeable draw. My guess is, based on what I've heard him say about his swing, one of the things he's worked on is his hand path through the ball, which would straighten the ballflight out if done correctly.

 

[wulsy]

What do the lines represent?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Lots of folks with "very little" tumble.

EVERYONE WHO MAKES CONTACT HAS TUMBLE!!!

This is basically the difference between the Sergio swing and the Calc swing.

 

[JDMAC]

Lots of folks with "very little" tumble.

EVERYONE WHO MAKES CONTACT HAS TUMBLE!!!

This is basically the difference between the Sergio swing and the Calc swing.

Don't suppose you have 3D data/ks graph for Calc you could share ? His physique is way closer to many of us than that of the flat bellies. Would be interesting to see where his power comes from.

Kevin suggested Dufners' move was one of a short hitter, but Calc is a bomber... If they have similar patterns is the right arm stuck to the body with Dufner responsible for the relative shortness?

 

[tongzilla]

lia, I think Jack Nicklaus is the posterchild for "anti-tumble". Somehow manages to shallow that shaft then steepen it again immediately and so the shaft backs up perfectly as he loses some spine angle.

 

[blehnhard]

Don't think Jason is any more "over the top" with hand path than Sam Snead was.

Bruce

 

[Kevin Shields]

Don't suppose you have 3D data/ks graph for Calc you could share ? His physique is way closer to many of us than that of the flat bellies. Would be interesting to see where his power comes from.

Kevin suggested Dufners' move was one of a short hitter, but Calc is a bomber... If they have similar patterns is the right arm stuck to the body with Dufner responsible for the relative shortness?

Calc a bomber??

 

[JDMAC]

No? Always remember him driving greens in Phoenix. #6 in Driving Distance on Champions tour in 2012 and consistent top 10 there. Back in the day I thought of him as a long hitter, perhaps bomber was a poor choice. Top 15-25 for many years on PGA tour.

 

[dschultz6072]

Calc still hits it 300. And he stands up while doing it.

 

[DCgolf]

Dufner hand path out but body WAY back, legs further under him than anyone out there and he's a good 6 inches pulled away at impact.

 

[ej20]

How about this fella?A steep tug at transition followed by a reverse tumble and then a late tumble into impact.As Brian said,ALL swings need tumble in order to hit the ball.It's just a matter of where you do it.

This pattern is obviously not particularly favored on this forum and even I agree it's perhaps not optimal but this guy has won 6 PGA titles and almost won a US Open.Repeatablilty under extreme pressure is still the most important swing feature.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Ej20, no tug in that transition, very wide from the top. Lots of reverse lay down, for sure. Similar to Daly and Petterson

 

[ej20]

Ej20, no tug in that transition, very wide from the top. Lots of reverse lay down, for sure. Similar to Daly and Petterson

Yeah I should just have said steep transition.

When I think of it,the only difference between Rocco and Sergio is that Rocco gets the club laid off later in the downswing due to the steep transition.As a result,the tumble and the vertical handpath comes later also.I am willing to wager that Rocco would have a higher rate of left forearm supination through the impact zone than Sergio.Sergio would have a higher rate of supination from transition to last parallel.

I believe Steve Elkington does something similar and he's been shown on TPI as having supination above the tour range.

 

[spktho]

I wouldn't call it anti-tumble. I'm thinking more of a "balanced tumble".

 

[lia41985]

Dufner hand path out but body WAY back, legs further under him than anyone out there and he's a good 6 inches pulled away at impact.

Not to get too parochial but, to say it another way, perhaps, he's "backing out of it"?

 

[lia41985]

I wouldn't call it anti-tumble. I'm thinking more of a "balanced tumble".

I like it. I'd say the same thing re: Dustin Johnson. Whatcha think?

 

[Brian Manzella]

I would call it—simply—less tumble.

Looking forward to running these tests on ENSO.

 

[Lifter]

Seems to me that the signature elements of Dufner's swing are his extremely short backswing and right elbow position at the top. Any thoughts on how that could influence the tumble?