The best Trackman numbers as far as controlling face, path, and ascent/descent.....

[2mongoose]

is Jim Furyk according to Fredrik Tuxen (the inventor of Trackman).

What does that say about the "As ye goes back, ye must come down" crowd?

I thought it was interesting that the guy with the "craziest" backswing in major competitive golf history has the best Trackman numbers with respect to consistent ball flight.

I'm not sure I'm drinking the kool-aid. Furyk, at least by golf standards, is a world class athlete. You could probably tell him to do anything and he breaks 70 getting out of bed.

The same rules don't apply to Joe Golfer - at least to that degree. There has to be some happy medium.

 

[tobell]

Shiftless bastards

There is no such thing a a shiftless swing--period. You can draw lines til the cows come home, but everybody has some shift in their swing. The highly skilled players with more pronounced shifts often are among the very best ball strikers...this is because they use their shifts to create a very discernible feedback which becomes their foundation for a consistent swing...tiny shifts=tiny feedback...large shifts=large feedback...large feedback=consistent swing. This is why many of the "Ole-timers" swings were so effective...Trevino, Barber, and company could sense where the sweetspot was because they had patterns that produced feedback. The modern swing---the cookie cutter version that almost every new tour player has--produces more clubhead speed...but less consistency...because it provides less feedback to the player.

 

[vjsinger]

Really, really good post...I have never thought of it that way...in this case I can have a nice day with my new found knowledge.

 

[dashfan87]

There is no such thing a a shiftless swing--period. You can draw lines til the cows come home, but everybody has some shift in their swing. The highly skilled players with more pronounced shifts often are among the very best ball strikers...this is because they use their shifts to create a very discernible feedback which becomes their foundation for a consistent swing...tiny shifts=tiny feedback...large shifts=large feedback...large feedback=consistent swing. This is why many of the "Ole-timers" swings were so effective...Trevino, Barber, and company could sense where the sweetspot was because they had patterns that produced feedback. The modern swing---the cookie cutter version that almost every new tour player has--produces more clubhead speed...but less consistency...because it provides less feedback to the player.

excelent excelent post tobell.

 

[holeout]

You totally missed my point.
I stated you can use any "pattern you desire" which most golfers do - but honestly if you were teaching a young beginner golfer would you teach/start with the Furyk pattern???

No no, I get it.

But, this is less about what you do teach someone, and more about what you don't teach someone.

Make sense?

 

[rogerdodger]

Furyk's Dad is a golf pro, obviously it was not a lack of access to quality instruction that created Furyk's swing. Maybe it was because his Dad knows what is important in the swing. It looks odd, but we are awfully hung up on aesthetics. I watched that guy Jeev Singh play with Tiger yesterday. His swing scares me he is so laid off, but damn if he does'nt hit quality golf shots.

 

[niblick1]

Furyk's Dad is a golf pro, obviously it was not a lack of access to quality instruction that created Furyk's swing. Maybe it was because his Dad knows what is important in the swing. It looks odd, but we are awfully hung up on aesthetics. I watched that guy Jeev Singh play with Tiger yesterday. His swing scares me he is so laid off, but damn if he does'nt hit quality golf shots.

Watching JM Singh's swing makes me nervous, too. But he does indeed make it work.

 

[mb6606]

There is no such thing a a shiftless swing--period. You can draw lines til the cows come home, but everybody has some shift in their swing.

Just swing inside a Homer Kelley's swing plane device as pictured and you will have ZERO shifts - period.

 

[dannyc]

Just swing inside a Homer Kelley's swing plane device as pictured and you will have ZERO shifts - period.

is this practical? have any successful golfers done this?

also, is the "as ye go up, ye come down" saying supposed to be used as advice/guideline, or is it referring to an actual causal relationship?

 

[tobell]

Just swing inside a Homer Kelley's swing plane device as pictured and you will have ZERO shifts - period.

Not true, and much more importantly not relevant to a real golf swing outside of the lab. Regarding plane shift, it doesn't matter if you're measuring shifts relative to the shaft plane or the sweet-spot plane, in either case you'll find there has never been a successfully player that did not shift his plane....some may have believed their planes did not shift, but they in fact did. For those that choose to pursue this 'non-compensated' pattern have at it...it's pure folly. Hogan shifted, and so did everyone else who ever struck a solid shot with power..period.

 

[birdie_man]

It's not about adding plane shifts. It's about not needing to take them away for the sake of "reducing compensations" or other B.S.

This is a doozy.

 

[matt kluck]

Great Banter

This thread is great. Good discussion and info. Keep it up!
MK

 

[Brian Manzella]

Hmmm...let's see...

You totally missed my point.
I stated you can use any "pattern you desire" which most golfers do - but honestly if you were teaching a young beginner golfer would you teach/start with the Furyk pattern???

....a young junior golfer....

I WOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT TEACH THAT GOLFER A SWING THAT WENT UP & DOWN THE SAME PLANE!!!!!!!!

 

[Brian Manzella]

Just swing inside a Homer Kelley's swing plane device as pictured and you will have ZERO shifts - period.

And you will look like ANYTHING but a golfer.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Let's start with this:

If you take an 8-iron, and aim a "plane board" like the one MB is talking about, right at the hole, and swung UP IT and DOWN It, in PERFECTLY "as ye..." style, and you have PERFECT CLUBFACE CONTROL.....

You will NEVER hit a straight shot with that 8-iron EVER, EVER, EVER again.

Heaven help you if the face is square at separation.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I played with Furyk as a junior and his swing didnt look like that at all and he hit a draw for everything. He obviously evovled his swing to get better results forsaking what it looked like. A lesson for all of us.

 

[mb6606]

And you will look like ANYTHING but a golfer.

Probably so - but the statement was you cannot have a shiftless swing - my answer was of course you can.

 

[Jared Willerson]

Probably so - but the statement was you cannot have a shiftless swing - my answer was of course you can.

Now, you are changing the context of what you were talking about in the first place...sure you can have a shiftless swing, but who, that could play at all, does?

Come on mb

I guess you can report back now and talk about all the heresy that is going on here!

You guys are funny

 

[vjsinger]

I played with Furyk as a junior and his swing didnt look like that at all and he hit a draw for everything. He obviously evovled his swing to get better results forsaking what it looked like. A lesson for all of us.

Any stories about Furyk?? Did he beat everyones brains in as a junior? Was he long??

 

[Richie3Jack]

....a young junior golfer....

I WOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT TEACH THAT GOLFER A SWING THAT WENT UP & DOWN THE SAME PLANE!!!!!!!!

Brian,

I'm a little confused by this. What if the jr. golfer naturally swung up and down the same plane and was a pretty good golfer? Would you change that? If so, why?



3JACK