It isn't just about power. It's about power and putting. Accuracy is worthless. There is no correlation between driving accuracy and GIR. Ben Hogan referred to the tee shot as the most important shot in golf. Would anybody say that argument even remotely holds today? Nobody sees this as a problem? Phil hit 2 fairways in round two. Nobody is saying these guys aren't talented. Their talents are simply massive swing speed, incredible touch around the greens, and amazing putting skills. Trevino, Pavin, Knudson... these guys would be stuck on the minitours if they were up and coming today. If you were designing a hole in which you wanted to test a pro's long iron approach shot making...how long would you make it? 575? More? Oops there goes our great historic golf courses and the last of the great shot shapers/ball strikers.
The Game has changed forever
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It isn't just about power. It's about power and putting. Accuracy is worthless. There is no correlation between driving accuracy and GIR. Ben Hogan referred to the tee shot as the most important shot in golf. Would anybody say that argument even remotely holds today? Nobody sees this as a problem? Phil hit 2 fairways in round two. Nobody is saying these guys aren't talented. Their talents are simply massive swing speed, incredible touch around the greens, and amazing putting skills. Trevino, Pavin, Knudson... these guys would be stuck on the minitours if they were up and coming today. If you were designing a hole in which you wanted to test a pro's long iron approach shot making...how long would you make it? 575? More? Oops there goes our great historic golf courses and the last of the great shot shapers/ball strikers.
Ok alot of interesting posts with valid responses nice to see a thread work without someone on there high horse destroying it. So with a little work how about this guys. It appears some feel Bubba is a great ball striker or pershaps not great but good hmmm?
A poster said he was #1 in GIR correct and now is 27th in GIR is that good ball striking hitting the green? I know Richie 3 Jack is a real good player who hits 14 to 17 greens regularly. So we must dig deeper.
Bubba Watson from the fairways or par 3's is ranked 135th - far cry from solid ball striking. Inside of 100yds ranked 112th which also states 17' 1" from the hole hmmm bad career? Ok 100-125 yds 79th. Lets try another one 150-175yds- 127th place also 28' from the hole. From 200-225yds wow 90th place If these stats hold up will we visit bubba and ask how to hit irons close hmmmm?
Whats more astonishing is scoring average 67th place at 69.83 but by all means is a nice average i do have to say regardless of the Bob Hope Classic factored in.
So what is a good ball striker one who hits GIR or a player who knocks down flags? And remember when your driving average is 315 the law of averages say you should hit it close with a shorter iron but not in Bubba's case maybe why he's won only twice on Tour?
Someone said putting yes he had a great putting rd thank goodness being ranked 104!
As far as some of my other comments upright clubs dont make you better in my opinion but some clubfitters put you in them due to markings on the clubs?
On a funny note Corey Pavin averaged 237 yd in driving back in 92 now is 253.20 on the Senior Tour must be that equipment or ball to get the extra 15yds Matt F
A poster said he was #1 in GIR correct and now is 27th in GIR is that good ball striking hitting the green? I know Richie 3 Jack is a real good player who hits 14 to 17 greens regularly. So we must dig deeper.
Bubba Watson from the fairways or par 3's is ranked 135th - far cry from solid ball striking. Inside of 100yds ranked 112th which also states 17' 1" from the hole hmmm bad career? Ok 100-125 yds 79th. Lets try another one 150-175yds- 127th place also 28' from the hole. From 200-225yds wow 90th place If these stats hold up will we visit bubba and ask how to hit irons close hmmmm?
Whats more astonishing is scoring average 67th place at 69.83 but by all means is a nice average i do have to say regardless of the Bob Hope Classic factored in.
So what is a good ball striker one who hits GIR or a player who knocks down flags? And remember when your driving average is 315 the law of averages say you should hit it close with a shorter iron but not in Bubba's case maybe why he's won only twice on Tour?
Someone said putting yes he had a great putting rd thank goodness being ranked 104!
As far as some of my other comments upright clubs dont make you better in my opinion but some clubfitters put you in them due to markings on the clubs?
On a funny note Corey Pavin averaged 237 yd in driving back in 92 now is 253.20 on the Senior Tour must be that equipment or ball to get the extra 15yds Matt F
mgranato
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Goes to show you...
I read that he hit it through the back of the green and got it up-n-down.
Darius recalls a third account... he said that Hogan's 1 iron hit the flag stick in the air... the ball bounce off the stick with enough spin to come back and hit the flag for a second time... but because he had perfect 0* axis tilt on the ball, the flag kept it out of the hole... but the perfect backspin had the ball roll up the flag stick, over the top, and back down the other side of the stick... ending up exactly on the back edge of the hole... exactly where he was originally aiming. Best shot he never saw!
Matt 4-L
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On a funny note Corey Pavin averaged 237 yd in driving back in 92 now is 253.20 on the Senior Tour must be that equipment or ball to get the extra 15yds Matt F
That's what I was hinting at, it has helped everyone, the guys who can hit the ball farther have always had an advantage. Jack was also known as a bomber and I think he was a pretty good shot maker.
I think the course plays a big factor also, courses like harbor town take the bombers advantage away.
As for Bubba, he was hitting it long and accurate which is usually not the case for bombers, hats off to Bubba last week.
Richie3Jack
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Thanks for the compliment, but it's more like 11 to 12 greens...on 6,900 to 7,200 yard courses. And a lot of golfers can hit greens, but getting it close is a different story. Augusta's greens aren't that difficult if you keep it inside 20 feet. But it's when guys leave it it 40+ feet away, they have real difficulty.
But a lot of that is guys hit the ball so long and there's no punishment for hitting it off line off the tee and they can get the ball to stop on the green from heavy rough in part because they are hitting a wedge, the technology is better and the green surfaces are better.
I fully plan and believe I will start hitting 14 to 17 greens regularly on the courses I play. But I don't believe I ever hit it anywhere near as far as those guys doe. I'd just be happy with hitting it 280-310 off the tee consistently, and being precise and accurate throughout my bag. I think I'd 'have a chance', but would still have a tough time beating the bomb n gouger who hits it a mile long and a mile off line.
3JACK
natep
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If Bubba is as poor of a ballstriker as the OP alluded to, why didnt some "pure" ballstriker just kick his ass this weekend?
They could have a throwback tournament tomorrow with hickory and gutta percha and Bubba would still retain his length advantage.
It seems to me like the "pure ballstriker" label is always something thats awarded to short hitters.
They could have a throwback tournament tomorrow with hickory and gutta percha and Bubba would still retain his length advantage.
It seems to me like the "pure ballstriker" label is always something thats awarded to short hitters.
NATEP
Lets ask this question in your mind what is a pure ball stiker? How do you judge wins?, distance?, proximity to the hole with irons? Gir?,short game? Most holes without a birdie?, Carrer wins?, Majors?,
If im not mistaken Brian once said Mac O'GRADY was one of the best ball strikers he's ever seen - dont quote it, i know iv'e seen Mac sure hard to argue.
Lets ask this question in your mind what is a pure ball stiker? How do you judge wins?, distance?, proximity to the hole with irons? Gir?,short game? Most holes without a birdie?, Carrer wins?, Majors?,
If im not mistaken Brian once said Mac O'GRADY was one of the best ball strikers he's ever seen - dont quote it, i know iv'e seen Mac sure hard to argue.
I know we all get caught up in looking at golf swings and Bubba's is anything but conventional.
But if this forum teaches us anything, its that the ball doesn't know what our swing looks like...and if you look at the overhead views of Torrey Pines and where Bubba's ball ended up...in the middle of the middle of the fairway, 340 yards away from where he's standing. Over and over again. That's pretty darn pure ballstriking.
But if this forum teaches us anything, its that the ball doesn't know what our swing looks like...and if you look at the overhead views of Torrey Pines and where Bubba's ball ended up...in the middle of the middle of the fairway, 340 yards away from where he's standing. Over and over again. That's pretty darn pure ballstriking.
natep
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In my opinion there are so many variables that tournament stats can be almost meaningless.
I just dont understand the arguments that long hitters shouldnt have an advantage over short hitters. Golf is in fact a sport, and I dont think short hitters have an inherent right to be on a level playing field if they cant hang.
If they can make up for it with superior shot making, then so be it.
Let the best man and the lowest score win. Just like always. I dont think the game is cheapened in any way.
I just dont understand the arguments that long hitters shouldnt have an advantage over short hitters. Golf is in fact a sport, and I dont think short hitters have an inherent right to be on a level playing field if they cant hang.
If they can make up for it with superior shot making, then so be it.
Let the best man and the lowest score win. Just like always. I dont think the game is cheapened in any way.
My hat goes off to Bubba a fine victory indeed and also to great individual off the golf course no doubt.
If the golf season ended today would we write a book and say you know Bubba was one of the greatest ball strikers in the last 7yrs? Remember between PGA and nationwide thats how long he's been out there or would we say Jim Colbert is better because he has 8 tour victories - no of course not
If in the next 3 yrs wins 10 more times does the discussion change?
If the golf season ended today would we write a book and say you know Bubba was one of the greatest ball strikers in the last 7yrs? Remember between PGA and nationwide thats how long he's been out there or would we say Jim Colbert is better because he has 8 tour victories - no of course not
If in the next 3 yrs wins 10 more times does the discussion change?
They should have an advantage but there should be a risk - reward aspect to it. Right now what is the risk of hitting a wayward tee shot? Like an earlier poster mentioned: there is little to no OB, little to no trees (to accomodate spectators), and little to no rough because the gallery has usually trampled it.
Shouldn't the player who can consistently hit the fairway also have an advantage over the wayward driver? Would you say they do as the PGA tour is currently set up?
We constanly hear on tv telecasts of this player being a superb ball striker. We hear this or that player having a different sound when they hit a iron. Even when i watch a PGA event i see and hear the difference. Yes i'm amazed by a player who plays par 5's with driver wedge i never could or will to me thats a par 4 for him but he's not like he's stuffin his wedge to 10ft every par 5 on his 2nd shot
natep
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I honestly dont know because I dont play those courses week to week and I dont know how long the rough is, etc.
Certainly though I can think of a few courses that are not just wide open with no trouble and no rough.
I have no objections to anyone setting up a course as hard or as easy as they wish. I mean, everyone's playing the same course so it seems fair to me either way.
Certainly though I can think of a few courses that are not just wide open with no trouble and no rough.
I have no objections to anyone setting up a course as hard or as easy as they wish. I mean, everyone's playing the same course so it seems fair to me either way.
The 2008 US Open Bubba Watson had 1 birdie in 2 rds. Remember they made a par 5 into a par 4 in which he was 1 over or today 1 under
He averaged 303 off the tee rd 1 and a whopping 322 yds off the tee in rd 2 and hit 58.6% of the fairways only 1 player hit it further DJ who had a 330 avg rd 2.
Yet his GIR 44%
More amazing there was a lot of players who had worse driving accuracy then Bubba but managed to finish in the top 20.
So good ball striker or just a bad day?
He averaged 303 off the tee rd 1 and a whopping 322 yds off the tee in rd 2 and hit 58.6% of the fairways only 1 player hit it further DJ who had a 330 avg rd 2.
Yet his GIR 44%
More amazing there was a lot of players who had worse driving accuracy then Bubba but managed to finish in the top 20.
So good ball striker or just a bad day?
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