The Out Toss

[drewyallop]

Such a great thread.

My problem is getting the hands low or swinging under the table as MJ says. I know when they are coming in too high. The butt end of the grip pops out of my left heel pad. So yesterday at the range I started waggling a hands-low release. Grip was firm and I could feel the clubhead. But during the backswing somehow I lost that hands-low feel.

Then an experiment. I closed the stance a bit. The hands seemed to go back behind me a lot more. The upper torso turn was less restricted and seemed to put my shoulders in a better position to go at the ball. At the start of the downswing I just knew I was in a place where I could "close the gap" with everything my body could give. Hands low and grip firm coming into a lovely contact, the ball flight a dead straight line drive.

65 years old and finally making concessions to age.

 

[JEREMY5577]

Yes, with a full release and no roll of the face. Tumble takes care of the right shot and no roll takes care of the left side

Kevin, Alot of your posts have really helped me over the last 7 months. The out toss morphing into the tumble makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the great information.

 

[SteveT]

My problem is getting the hands low or swinging under the table as MJ says. I know when they are coming in too high. The butt end of the grip pops out of my left heel pad. So yesterday at the range I started waggling a hands-low release. Grip was firm and I could feel the clubhead. But during the backswing somehow I lost that hands-low feel.

Then an experiment. I closed the stance a bit. The hands seemed to go back behind me a lot more. The upper torso turn was less restricted and seemed to put my shoulders in a better position to go at the ball. At the start of the downswing I just knew I was in a place where I could "close the gap" with everything my body could give. Hands low and grip firm coming into a lovely contact, the ball flight a dead straight line drive.

Okay, let's back up here.... when your hands go high, do you tend to hit on the toe of the club?

When your hands go high does your left lead arm come off your left pec going into final release and impact?

If your left arm rotates upward off your pec, are you blocking your hip and then shoulder rotation?

When you narrowed your stance, did this allow you to better rotate your hips and consequently your shoulders did not block?

When your hips block, your shoulder rotation will automatically block too because of the faulty dynamic sequencing.

Just asking .....

 

[self-mastery]

This is the same throw that Tomasello and Austin taught.

 

[spktho]

Mickelson was practicing an out toss move with his left arm in the 8th fairway today.

 

[drewyallop]

Okay, let's back up here.... when your hands go high, do you tend to hit on the toe of the club?

When your hands go high does your left lead arm come off your left pec going into final release and impact?

If your left arm rotates upward off your pec, are you blocking your hip and then shoulder rotation?

When you narrowed your stance, did this allow you to better rotate your hips and consequently your shoulders did not block?

When your hips block, your shoulder rotation will automatically block too because of the faulty dynamic sequencing.

Just asking .....

Good questions Steve.

I closed my stance (moved the right foot back) not narrowed it. But yes, now that I think of it my hips did turn a lot more freely, both ways.

Hands go high, butt end pops out, acceleration stops. Ball goes straight but no distance. A very bad feeling of lots of exertion but no power.

Did not monitor left arm, pec etc. But I will and get back.

 

[bryan@nobackswing.com]

Yes, with a full release and no roll of the face. Tumble takes care of the right shot and no roll takes care of the left side

i'm having some really interesting results playing with this idea. seems to really help clubface consistency and also gets my low point more forward.

 

[colinearl]

i'm having some really interesting results playing with this idea. seems to really help clubface consistency and also gets my low point more forward.

And IMO from experience, if you do what kevin says, and even if you squat and jump like a mentalist as Tiger did with his driver under Haney, if you just check you don't let the arm swing get away from you, you can go at it as hard as you want and it's a straight shot down the middlish!
It amazes me, but nobody seems to remember or mention the young girl in Mike Jacobs' original release video..Even in slo mo, such power from such a little girl with a no roll as kevin says..What else do you want?

 

[Kevin Shields]

And IMO from experience, if you do what kevin says, and even if you squat and jump like a mentalist as Tiger did with his driver under Haney, if you just check you don't let the arm swing get away from you, you can go at it as hard as you want and it's a straight shot down the middlish!
It amazes me, but nobody seems to remember or mention the young girl in Mike Jacobs' original release video..Even in slo mo, such power from such a little girl with a no roll as kevin says..What else do you want?

I like it and agree, sir.

 

[willimatic]

Kevin - The no roll you speak of is that what Brian talks about with having the left palm towards the target with the top wrist bone more or less still target side (ro roll)?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Kevin - The no roll you speak of is that what Brian talks about with having the left palm towards the target with the top wrist bone more or less still target side (ro roll)?

Yes, it's the only release type I've been trying to get forever, along with a vertical left arm and the out toss/widening of the transition has allowed tha to happen.

 

[Brian Manzella]

SpiderMan left hand.

 

[cwdlaw223]

That helps stop/slow down the roll (supination) of the left forearm through the impact area and therefore face angle closing?

 

[willimatic]

along with a vertical left arm and the out toss/widening of the transition has allowed tha to happen.

What do you mean by a vertical left arm?

 

[willimatic]

SpiderMan left hand.

 

[spktho]

Yes, with a full release and no roll of the face. Tumble takes care of the right shot and no roll takes care of the left side

I can't remember from the 'tumble' thread so I'll ask here. How much, if any, of the tumble do you think the lower body is responsible for? I have been tumbling with mixed results using the arms/hands and right shoulder--I think usually overdoing it and getting too steep too soon. Had some success today with feeling no tumble or turning of the hips until about half way into the downswing. From there I almost had the feeling of the right hip(right side of the pelvis, actually) helping to tumble the club head over. It really helped prevent pulls. Or is that just a face opening move? Thanks

 

[Kevin Shields]

I can't remember from the 'tumble' thread so I'll ask here. How much, if any, of the tumble do you think the lower body is responsible for? I have been tumbling with mixed results using the arms/hands and right shoulder--I think usually overdoing it and getting too steep too soon. Had some success today with feeling no tumble or turning of the hips until about half way into the downswing. From there I almost had the feeling of the right hip(right side of the pelvis, actually) helping to tumble the club head over. It really helped prevent pulls. Or is that just a face opening move? Thanks

The left side of the body and lower body pivot prevent the club from over tumbling and preventing pulls.

 

[Kevin Shields]

What do you mean by a vertical left arm?

Left arm swinging vertical thru impact

 

[wulsy]

Yes, it's the only release type I've been trying to get forever, along with a vertical left arm and the out toss/widening of the transition has allowed tha to happen.

Kevin, do you actively try to cup the left wrist through impact, and if so, when did you realise that the traditional release was a recipe for army golf? left, right, left, right, my boots are heavy...

 

[Kevin Shields]

Kevin, do you actively try to cup the left wrist through impact, and if so, when did you realise that the traditional release was a recipe for army golf? left, right, left, right, my boots are heavy...

Not thru impact but immediately after. I realized it years ago when that's all you saw and thru experimenting. It's the only way to keep the face square and hit the other side of the plane.