The Out Toss
- Thread starter Kevin Shields
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JEREMY5577
New
Kevin, If the club is kept on plane is it even possible to over tumble? I noticed when I was tumbling with poor hand path I was spraying it, but then I started to develop a better hand path or the out toss morphed into the tumble as you said. And I seem to be able to tumble as hard as I can infact the more the better as long as the hand path is good. Am I seeing this right?
Also from the time I joined the forum I've been obsessed with getting the left arm vertical at last parallel, but with no success until recently when I started working on the above mentioned. Now the left arm seems to just pass through that vertical window unforced.
Also from the time I joined the forum I've been obsessed with getting the left arm vertical at last parallel, but with no success until recently when I started working on the above mentioned. Now the left arm seems to just pass through that vertical window unforced.
Good question. It seems for me that trying to tumble too soon--at transition--gets the club too left or out toward the target line. Could you describe the hand path at and from transition? As you can tell, I'm still a little lost on this.
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SteveT
Guest
How do you know if the vertical left arm is something you should be working to achieve?
Nice pictures showing lead arm positioning with short club horizontal.... but, the more important arm position is at impact. Is the lead arm still vertical or is it pulled back inwards to the body while maintaining the same spinal tilt ... aka "under the table" per Mike Jacobs?
If the lead arm is flying off the chest, that will be a death move and a toe hit. Now just imagine the upward thrust of the handle butt end on the lead hand palm and holding the vertical orientation through impact!!!
(You see 'positions'... I see 'forces'...
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Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
...and right hand.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
An over tumble would be an off plane move so to your question, I guess, yes you can over tumble. Hard to do though.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Out, back and down inside the ball.
JEREMY5577
New
ok cool I remember you saying few people would harmed by trying to tumble too soon. So the way I would look at it is tumble as much as possible while staying on plane? This seems to create massive amounts of torque. And also what might be throwing people off is tumbling the club needs pivot to straighten it out. Its the torque of tryng to keep it on plane while tumbling that creates the speed.
willimatic
New
Kevin - Did you have to adjust your left hand grip at all with the tumble full release no roll move. I'd assume if you did, you had to go a bit stronger?
I have always had a fairly neutral grip, maybe not quite Manz neutral, but strengthening my grip per the video has helped. I revert back to my normal grip as I have used for years but I can't release it spiderman left hand style without hitting it right.
I have always had a fairly neutral grip, maybe not quite Manz neutral, but strengthening my grip per the video has helped. I revert back to my normal grip as I have used for years but I can't release it spiderman left hand style without hitting it right.
Okay, sounds dumb I know, but this post just cleared up a bunch for me. I don't know what anybody else thinks, but I think this post would help a LOT of people.
mgranato
New
Nice pictures showing lead arm positioning with short club horizontal.... but, the more important arm position is at impact. Is the lead arm still vertical or is it pulled back inwards to the body while maintaining the same spinal tilt ... aka "under the table" per Mike Jacobs?
If the lead arm is flying off the chest, that will be a death move and a toe hit. Now just imagine the upward thrust of the handle butt end on the lead hand palm and holding the vertical orientation through impact!!!
(You see 'positions'... I see 'forces'...
Hansen, Yang, and Watson all swing it differently but successfully (understatement). I guess I'm just trying to better understand what elements in general fit better with vertical vs. shallower left arm.
Thank you Kevin. I remember from the tumble thread now, like "sticking the handle in the right rear pants pocket".
Just to make sure, the "out" is behind the golfer, away from the target line and the "back" is away from the target--toward the catcher?
As Jeremy says, the out and back hand path to start the downswing could be the "out toss" that sets up the proper hand path and tumble. Once the arms are in motion getting the club on the correct path, the pivot will assist. I think its starting to come together now--just have to perform it. I've been out of sync with a poor hand path.
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Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Very good description IMO
No, switch that--thumb pointing at yourself is "out" or toward your back behind you, right?
That's the main problem I've been having is getting the hands toward the target line, out in front, too soon and would take the shaft with me and get steep. Then when trying to get the left arm vertical and swing left, the ball will go left, fade/slice, or right depending on how well the golfer backed the shaft up or made some other compensation with the face or pivot--usually no pivot.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
You are correct
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