The Passive Pivot of the Lower Body

[The Hammer]

When I see a golfer hit a driver 280-300 yards sitting on a chair it is obvious that the pivot of the lower body is not the major power source.

I believe the pivot of the lower body should be for impact accuracy only. The bigger or aggressive the pivot of the lower body is, the harder it is to stay in balance and stay in sync with the circular motion of the hands and arms and the less accurate impact is.

The bigger and more aggressive the pivot of the lower body is the less accurate impact is period!

Some golfers like Tiger can time an aggressive pivot with the hands and arms at impact most of the time but we also see what happens when he doesn’t. Tiger just has a rare talent and a lot of luck when the driver is way off line. He will almost always have a shot to the green.

We are not like Tiger!!!


On the other hand it is easy to time the hands and arms with a more passive pivot of the lower body for accurate impact. Golfers should work hard on applying more power to the hands with a more passive pivot of the lower body.

The more power you apply to the hands via the muscles of right arm and upper body the faster the club head moves and with a passive pivot of the lower body the more accurate impact is.


The pivot of the lower body should only make room for the hands and arms to perform correct motion to the club on an incline plane, without disrupting club head speed and impact accuracy.


Saying this some golfers that read this will not be willing to give up the ideas of more power and club head speed through the pivot of the lower body and will continue to struggle with impact.

This pivot obsession is why the scores of weekend golfers will always be high and for many years to come.

Give up the bigger or aggressive pivot addiction and see what potential you really have as a golfer.

To Better Golf,
John W Rohan-Weaver G.S.E.M.

 

[golfer24]

Thats your opinion but i see more poor swings from people who do not have anything like a correct pivot and are trying to use their hands and arms way too much. the hands allow speed they don't in themselves provide speed. For me the hips are the number one source of power in the swing. Take a closer look at someone sat on a chair or on his knees he is still working his hips they may not be going 45 degrees but they are still working them real hard. Anyway interesting post and i have a couple of your products pure swing and power angle pro which are very good.

 

[The Hammer]

Thats your opinion but i see more poor swings from people who do not have anything like a correct pivot and are trying to use their hands and arms way too much. the hands allow speed they don't in themselves provide speed. For me the hips are the number one source of power in the swing. Take a closer look at someone sat on a chair or on his knees he is still working his hips they may not be going 45 degrees but they are still working them real hard. Anyway interesting post and i have a couple of your products pure swing and power angle pro which are very good.

Here is what I wrote. “The bigger or aggressive the pivot of the lower body is, the harder it is to stay in balance and stay in sync with the circular motion of the hands and arms and the less accurate impact is”.

This is what the "snapping the chain" is all about. Better sequence with a more passive lower body pivot.

It is not an opinion it is a fact of testing many golfers.

Your post is talking about a correct pivot and true many golfers cannot make a correct pivot.

As for the lower body providing your swing with all the power, I would suggest adding more power to the hands from the muscles of the right arm and upper body.

You will be surprised how much farther and straighter you will hit it.

Thanks for the feedback on the trainers.

To Better Golf,

John W Rohan-Weaver G.S.E.M.

 

[jenhaoyen]

Here is what I wrote. “The bigger or aggressive the pivot of the lower body is, the harder it is to stay in balance and stay in sync with the circular motion of the hands and arms and the less accurate impact is”.

This is what the "snapping the chain" is all about. Better sequence with a more passive lower body pivot.

It is not an opinion it is a fact of testing many golfers.

Your post is talking about a correct pivot and true many golfers cannot make a correct pivot.

As for the lower body providing your swing with all the power, I would suggest adding more power to the hands from the muscles of the right arm and upper body.

You will be surprised how much farther and straighter you will hit it.

Thanks for the feedback on the trainers.

To Better Golf,

John W Rohan-Weaver G.S.E.M.

cool story hansel

 

[thefuture37]

When I see a golfer hit a driver 280-300 yards sitting on a chair it is obvious that the pivot of the lower body is not the major power source.

how many people have you seen do this that aren't very strong in the upper body?

 

[self-mastery]

I agree with the hammer's argument.

I simply do not have the coordination to use a swing where I focus on the pivot powering the swing. It seems silly to give control to the portion of the body that is responsible for gross movements. I find it much easier to give my hands the assignment of whipping the club. I completely trust my body to counterbalance and put me into the correct position to smash the ball. It really is like Tai Chi or Xing Yi Chuan!

I'm sure that the other way works well, it just doesn't work for me.

 

[pieman]

but why then do we hear "wallop with your pivot"?

 

[self-mastery]

how many people have you seen do this that aren't very strong in the upper body?

MEH Learn how to use your hands.

I agree with Hammer.

I do not have the ability to play well with a big pivot swing. If the hands and arms are the power lane of the golf swing, then why not use them to power the swing? I've trained my pivot, and have it on autopilot, which is exactly the opposite of what Brian and Mike suggested. If it weren't for that darn club face, golf would be exactly like throwing a ball. Who using pivot power to throw a pitch? Load, unload, and whip your arm! I guess if you wanted to throw a slow knuckle ball??????

I know that the other way works well, but this way is also valid.

ARGH ----- I thought my first post was deleted

 

[self-mastery]

but why then do we hear "wallop with your pivot"?

I believe that you have to educate your hands first to wallop with your pivot (Confessions). The opposite is true if you want to focus on your hands: educate your pivot, and then your hands...

Manzella?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Ah...no.

The Pivot has lots to do on the downswing.

There needs to be stability at impact, but MUCH FORCE leading up to it.

So, I have to say, I disagree.

The Pivot is not, and should not be passive.

 

[dashfan87]

Umm... yeah, personally, coming from someone who has allot of upper body strength, I hit it MUCH farther, and straiter, when I allow my arms to drop, my pivot to pull my arms through, and snaping that all important and god forsaken kinetic chain.
what happens when I get passive with the pivot, and overly armsy? usually a pull, and a 230 yard drive, or a duck hook.
what happens when I pivot correctly, and allow my chain to snappify, 290.

but thats just me, going by the facts of what my body is capable of doing.

 

[The Hammer]

how many people have you seen do this that aren't very strong in the upper body?

What do you mean strong in the upper body? Bench 250 or do 50 push-ups? It is proper technique of power applied to the hands via the muscles of the right arm and upper body that makes this possible. I have seen a golfer that couldn’t bench 80 pounds do it.

 

[Chris Sturgess]

We are not like Tiger!!!

And Tiger wouldn't be Tiger either if he listened to you...

 

[The Hammer]

Umm... yeah, personally, coming from someone who has allot of upper body strength, I hit it MUCH farther, and straiter, when I allow my arms to drop, my pivot to pull my arms through, and snaping that all important and god forsaken kinetic chain.
what happens when I get passive with the pivot, and overly armsy? usually a pull, and a 230 yard drive, or a duck hook.
what happens when I pivot correctly, and allow my chain to snappify, 290.

but thats just me, going by the facts of what my body is capable of doing.

It is correct technique. I use to teach a few big time power lifters and without correct technique they might hit the driver 220.

Once they learned the correct technique they could hit the driver straight 280 -300 yards no problem with a more passive pivot.

They understand that the power in the legs is through flexion and extension and it works great for a squat motion.

In the golf swing it is a rotary motion from the lower body that is used. The muscles used to do this are not powerful like the ones used to squat.

On the other hand the muscles in the right arm and upper body are strong and can be trained to move fast.

If you think it is lower body power strap the club to your waist and play golf that way.

I bet you could not hit the driver over 100 yards even if you had the right technique to hit the ball this way.

 

[The Hammer]

And Tiger wouldn't be Tiger either if he listened to you...

Tiger will be Tiger no matter who he listens to.

 

[holeout]

John (Hammer),

To me it seems that the "passive pivot" argument seems to have more to do with the correct timing of the pivot, rather than it being passive. I know that for myself, I work my pivot a bit too hard, too early into the downswing. I have to feel like I have a slower or more passive pivot on the downswing in order to not destroy my sequencing on the downswing.

Perhaps this is what you are arguing. The pivot still supplies much of the speed, and the lower body pivot is very much a part of that. But if you spin out your lower body/hips early in the downswing or at the wrong time, it could certainly be all for naught.

 

[dashfan87]

Too late to argue... sleep... but i will comment later.

 

[Damon Lucas]

I think it is less the passiveness of the lower body pivot, and more the incorrect usage that is the problem.

Yes, you want stability.

You also want to understand how the feet, knees, and hips/pelvis work to provide power, and accuracy.

Sitting in a chair is a bit of a trick shot anyway. You still 'snap the chain', just like you do off your knees. Has anyone ever checked the accuracy componant of hitting from a chair versus no chair? We know that we hit it shorter. So why?

To borrow from one of Brian's immortal sayings, 'Just do it right!'

 

[thefuture37]

What do you mean strong in the upper body? Bench 250 or do 50 push-ups? It is proper technique of power applied to the hands via the muscles of the right arm and upper body that makes this possible. I have seen a golfer that couldn’t bench 80 pounds do it.

I mean someone who is strong like Zuback or Ben Witter. Show a video of someone who can hit it 300 yards realistically(not a huge amount of roll), that can't obviously bench press 80 pounds, all while sitting in a chair.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Well....

If you think about it, it is EASIER to snap your "Kinetic Chain" in a chair or off your knees.