Tiger and his schedule.

[vjsinger]

I'm going to say this to myself 10,000 times, "I will never, ever,ever, pretend to know what the hell I'm talking about when it comes to TW's swing again". Ahh. With that said. It's early in the Tournament, but MAN he's swinging it good, which begs the question. Should Tiger simply just play more Tournaments in a row and the better he will play? Kind of a Vijay Singh approach to playing golf..HMMMM.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Schedule has nothing to do with Tiger's problems with the driver and his swing. His problems are conceptually based, IMO. Tiger likes to say that there is no one way to swing a club, yet goes to a teacher that teaches every student the same swing. Often times I don't know what to think about that. I think if anything, Tiger needs a better teacher who can really sell himself and how he could improve Tiger over what Haney is teaching him now. I think the 'selling' part is the tough one. Not only tough to do and tough to find a teacher who can do it, but a teacher who is willing to do it. And obviously telling Tiger that he used to hit the ball so much better before Haney doesn't do the trick.




3JACK

 

[vjsinger]

I just wonder because he hit it really well on the front side and watching it right now..he seems to be falling apart. Like I said above, I'm not into trying to analyze his swing anymore, but why the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde bit?? Hard for me to understand it being a conceptual thing. You mean the Haney plane "theory"??

 

[fronesis]

I'm not into trying to analyze his swing anymore, but why the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde bit??

The two are connected (swing and Jekyll/Hyde).

He plays great because he's the greatest player in the world.

But many of us think that when he starts missing fairways with the driver it's because Haney has him making a backswing that puts him in a really poor position at the top.

 

[vjsinger]

The two are connected (swing and Jekyll/Hyde).

He plays great because he's the greatest player in the world.

But many of us think that when he starts missing fairways with the driver it's because Haney has him making a backswing that puts him in a really poor position at the top.

I get that part..FLW too rotated,laid off..yeah, but..why would he try and fix those specific things?? Seems to me when he is "more patient" from the top he hits it plenty far and well(like on the front side today). Do you think this would suit him, the less laid off position, because of his startdown,personality, swing dynamics. Do you think his dynamics are actually messing up his geometry??...sorry for the questions, I'm just really trying to understand.

 

[fronesis]

Hey VJ - I'm no expert! But you raise some good questions. Here are my thoughts, for whatever they are worth.

I get that part..FLW too rotated,laid off..yeah, but..why would he try and fix those specific things?? Seems to me when he is "more patient" from the top he hits it plenty far and well(like on the front side today).

I've never played serious (tour level) competitive golf. But I have played a lot of competitive golf in my life (mainly in high school and college) and that has taught me that what you can do with your swing without pressure and what your swing does to you under pressure are VERY different things. For Tiger Woods, there's not a lot of pressure until he's trying to win a big tournament, maybe even a major. But it's harder even for him to 'be patient' when he's under more pressure.

So I think that the position Haney has him in is one that makes it HARDER to make his best move at the ball when under pressure. I think that if he were less over-rotated and less laid off at the top that he would hit even more good shots under pressure. I also think that the Haney top position puts Tiger in a position to hit that WAY RIGHT driver. I think that with a better position at the top that shot wouldn't be in play. I think that with his backswing from 1997 or 2000 Tiger would simply be incapable of hitting the fat 5 wood that we saw him hit at the British, for example.

Tiger is about to cruise to victory today, it seems. But if you watched closely you could tell: on the back 9 he had NO CLUE where his driver was going. If he fixed his backswing I think he'd be able to hit the driver straight under pressure. Again, just a bunch of opinions from me...

 

[Richie3Jack]

I get that part..FLW too rotated,laid off..yeah, but..why would he try and fix those specific things?? Seems to me when he is "more patient" from the top he hits it plenty far and well(like on the front side today).

If he wants to the be the best ever, then he needs to win the most majors. And the way his swing is now designed, I believe it puts that into doubt to some degree...at least a larger doubt than what I had say 5 years ago. And typically, Majors are set up to punish the long but inaccurate (although this year's US Open tried to favor the bombers). So when he gets on a course that is tougher in the rough, that's when those swing issues really show up.

I believe that the golf swing is far more about mechanics/geometry/physics than it is about timing and hand-eye coordination. Not saying that hand-eye coordination isn't important...in fact, it probably is why Tiger is still the #1 golfer in the world despite the swing issues. But if your mechanics are poor, it becomes almost impossible for the golfer to always rely on the timing to hit consistently great and accurate golf shots.




3JACK

 

[vjsinger]

Hey VJ - I'm no expert! But you raise some good questions. Here are my thoughts, for whatever they are worth.



I've never played serious (tour level) competitive golf. But I have played a lot of competitive golf in my life (mainly in high school and college) and that has taught me that what you can do with your swing without pressure and what your swing does to you under pressure are VERY different things. For Tiger Woods, there's not a lot of pressure until he's trying to win a big tournament, maybe even a major. But it's harder even for him to 'be patient' when he's under more pressure.

So I think that the position Haney has him in is one that makes it HARDER to make his best move at the ball when under pressure. I think that if he were less over-rotated and less laid off at the top that he would hit even more good shots under pressure. I also think that the Haney top position puts Tiger in a position to hit that WAY RIGHT driver. I think that with a better position at the top that shot wouldn't be in play. I think that with his backswing from 1997 or 2000 Tiger would simply be incapable of hitting the fat 5 wood that we saw him hit at the British, for example.

Tiger is about to cruise to victory today, it seems. But if you watched closely you could tell: on the back 9 he had NO CLUE where his driver was going. If he fixed his backswing I think he'd be able to hit the driver straight under pressure. Again, just a bunch of opinions from me...

Thanks Fronesis. I have thought very much about this stuff recently..the complexity that is the human system. I am in a field where in order to perform your very best it is imperative that you really know yourself and your tendencies "UNDER THE GUN". I think all of these points you bring up are GREAT questions and maybe the questions that we all should ask ourselves..WHO ARE WE REALLY??, and maybe more importantly, WHAT ARE WE CAPABLE of?? Good Stuff, man,Good stuff.

 

[vjsinger]

If he wants to the be the best ever, then he needs to win the most majors. And the way his swing is now designed, I believe it puts that into doubt to some degree...at least a larger doubt than what I had say 5 years ago. And typically, Majors are set up to punish the long but inaccurate (although this year's US Open tried to favor the bombers). So when he gets on a course that is tougher in the rough, that's when those swing issues really show up.

I believe that the golf swing is far more about mechanics/geometry/physics than it is about timing and hand-eye coordination. Not saying that hand-eye coordination isn't important...in fact, it probably is why Tiger is still the #1 golfer in the world despite the swing issues. But if your mechanics are poor, it becomes almost impossible for the golfer to always rely on the timing to hit consistently great and accurate golf shots.




3JACK

Maybe...But..What about the other factors??

 

[needham]

you know it was bad when he started to miss the tee ball LEFT!

WHY he doesn't just hit 3 wood I will never know. yeah I do ......Pride and arrogance that's why

 

[vjsinger]

you know it was bad when he started to miss the tee ball LEFT!

WHY he doesn't just hit 3 wood I will never know. yeah I do ......Pride and arrogance that's why

Maybe..but what about Pride and CONFIDENCE. If you watch closely Tiger swings very differently based on his level of confidence and based on his last shot...successful or not. Tiger is sooo interesting I think. A true JOCK.

 

[needham]

well if he had NO confidence in the driver, then why not 3 wood , that he STILL hits 3 bills down main street? or did I misunderstand your point.

I say this, he left Butch b/c he was MORE tired of people hitting it past him than he was HAPPY about winning US Opens by 15.

 

[vjsinger]

well if he had NO confidence in the driver, then why not 3 wood , that he STILL hits 3 bills down main street? or did I misunderstand your point.

I say this, he left Butch b/c he was MORE tired of people hitting it past him than he was HAPPY about winning US Opens by 15.

But, I believe he DOES have confidence in the driver, based on his last swing, that's my point. The confidence is not THE ANSWER, but it's a starting point, for HIM,.. maybe. I understand your point(trying to hit it further), BUT my question is Where should he start? Not the 3wood I suspect. He's a JOCK..in the truest sense.

 

[needham]

Where should he start?

try the middle of the fairway.


It is my belief that if he hit 3w off every tee, he would hit 12fw a round and win every tourny he entered by 10 shots (saying he putted decent)



what I am saying is, his swing is not REALLY the issue, sure it hurts. But his SWING WITH THE DRIVER kills him.
so lets think of this..........
HE STILL FLAGS HIS IRONS
HE IS STILL THE BEST WITH WEDGE IN HIS HANDS
HE IS STILL THE BEST WITH PUTTER IN HIS HANDS
HE HAS EVERY SHOT IN THE BAG AND MAKES UP MORE SHOTS DAILY

all this adds up to..................................

HIT A FREAKING 3 WOOD OFF THE TEE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!! HIT A 3 WOOD !!!!!!!!

STEVIE..............SNAP THE SHAFT IN THE DRIVER................HAND TIGER THE 3, TRES, the number between 2 and 4, triple, wood ANYTHING BUT A DRIVER!

 

[vjsinger]

Still not getting it.

 

[Zztop]

5 This year and counting, 70 and counting, 14 and counting, add it all up= best PLAYER / Winner, period. F... all the Driver's no good b.s., he could do this or that if he dumped Haney etc.

Who do you think is driving the car Haney or Tiger, me thinks Tiger. All the Tiger haters give it up, all the forum experts who think they know what's best for Tiger couldn't help themselves, never mind know what's good for Tiger, if they could what are they doing here asking all their questions about the swing, huh?

 

[Steve Hale]

try the middle of the fairway.


It is my belief that if he hit 3w off every tee, he would hit 12fw a round and win every tourny he entered by 10 shots (saying he putted decent)



what I am saying is, his swing is not REALLY the issue, sure it hurts. But his SWING WITH THE DRIVER kills him.
so lets think of this..........
HE STILL FLAGS HIS IRONS
HE IS STILL THE BEST WITH WEDGE IN HIS HANDS
HE IS STILL THE BEST WITH PUTTER IN HIS HANDS
HE HAS EVERY SHOT IN THE BAG AND MAKES UP MORE SHOTS DAILY

all this adds up to..................................

HIT A FREAKING 3 WOOD OFF THE TEE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!! HIT A 3 WOOD !!!!!!!!

STEVIE..............SNAP THE SHAFT IN THE DRIVER................HAND TIGER THE 3, TRES, the number between 2 and 4, triple, wood ANYTHING BUT A DRIVER!

If he hits 3 wood every hole he doesn't make eagle on 2. Doesn't shoot 65-65 the last two rounds. Doesn't make as many birdies. Maybe doesn't win. I understand you are trying to take the volatility out of his rounds, but with that will come less good birdie opportunities. He makes par from the trees consistently for chrissakes!

 

[vjsinger]

5 This year and counting, 70 and counting, 14 and counting, add it all up= best PLAYER / Winner, period. F... all the Driver's no good b.s., he could do this or that if he dumped Haney etc.

Who do you think is driving the car Haney or Tiger, me thinks Tiger. All the Tiger haters give it up, all the forum experts who think they know what's best for Tiger couldn't help themselves, never mind know what's good for Tiger, if they could what are they doing here asking all their questions about the swing, huh?

That's funny. Brian is SOOOOO nice to you. I'm trying to ask a serious, possibly complicated question, and once again you are going to try and ruin a thread. Why? What is your angle or motivation? How can you contribute to this thread, besides saying the same things you always say?? I think their are alot of smart people on this forum..a WHOLE LOT SMARTER than you and me. Yet, you continue to ruin threads, all you do is get in the way, please stop it. Ask a question that pertains to the conversation, or BUTT out. Pretty simple..that's all I have to say to you. Anyone else with brains would like to contribute??

 

[needham]

Still not getting it.

me or you?

 

[needham]

He makes par from the trees consistently for chrissakes!

when he could make birdie from the fairway.


Did he not hit 3 wood about 315 today on 18? case closedif he did indeed hit 3 wood on 18