Tiger Woods future

[trickyric67]

Ric, you 'laid out the facts' in a way that suggested things that many here have interpreted in a certain way. You wanted people to agree with your version of the facts, and when they haven't, you have been trying to put a spin on what you said. What do you think the author of a book does? He/she uses certain words to convey a meaning, exactly like you did. Rather than feign hurt, you could express that people other than you have rights to opinions that might differ from yours. Plenty of people here have said that you have every right to believe that Tiger will crawl into a corner, hug his knees, sob uncontrollably for several years, and stare at a blank wall for the rest of his life once he calls time.(btw...if you missed my tone, it was gentle sarcasm!)

I feign nothing.I ask for civility and I make a simple point that everything you just attributed to me I never ever ever ever wrote. that's all, go through the thread I never stated a single thing that you just attributed to me, I never once commented on his golf because that wasn't the question I asked and I certainly didn't say he would crawl anywhere. it is your conviction to a position you have invented for me that amazes me.
I now get the rules, no Tiger talk if you aren't going to worship him or treat him like a mortal and apparently we can't discuss what we read in golfworld or golfweek about anything beyond the swing. Gotcha!
check please....

 

[Damon Lucas]

I feign nothing.I ask for civility and I make a simple point that everything you just attributed to me I never ever ever ever wrote. that's all, go through the thread I never stated a single thing that you just attributed to me, I never once commented on his golf because that wasn't the question I asked and I certainly didn't say he would crawl anywhere. it is your conviction to a position you have invented for me that amazes me.
I now get the rules, no Tiger talk if you aren't going to worship him or treat him like a mortal and apparently we can't discuss what we read in golfworld or golfweek about anything beyond the swing. Gotcha!
check please....

'Check, please...'
'This thread is closed'
Did you miss the part where I acknowledged that you have a right to a viewpoint? Do I, and others here, not have a similiar right?
I learnt when I was about 7 to watch out for emotional language and for when someone uses tactics other than facts to provide confirmation to their bias.
You are a terrific and interesting poster in just about every respect. You are perfectly entitled to wonder about Tiger's future, and for me, it is a far more interesting question than lots of others. I just happen to disagree with some of your inferences. Am I not entitled to that?

 

[self-mastery]

What I find odd is that you claim that what you wrote is FACT. What I see you doing is holding Palmer's and Jack's public persona as their authentic selves. Politicians, prisoners, and pedophile preachers all claim that God, their wife or their kids are why they reached success. We all know that's mostly BS.

Do people benefit from the stability of family? Of course.

Is an awesome family life requisite for success? No.

Do outside interests give a person balance? Yes.

Did you set yourself up for a smack down? Yes

Are you getting hated on? No

 

[rsox5092]

tone would be in your inner voice as you read. there is no sound in the written word. I can say the sentence "so what I hear you saying" in many different ways and have many different meanings.

Ok are you saying that there can be no tone in writing? If so my High school English teacher would be very disappointed in you as I believe I wrote a 4 page paper which had to do with the tone and mood a writer chooses to write with just a couple months ago.

 

[conkanen]

OMG, a bunch of freakin PC speak in here. Tiger was banging porn stars and Hookers when his wife was home and pregnant. That's a fact Jack <--Pun intended. Yeah I hear you guys..."But what does it matter, we don't know anything about Tiger..." blah blah blah.
The burden of proof lies with the the Jack naysayers on this one.

 

[birly-shirly]

hey tricky - I'm glad you liked conkanen's post. this must be the kind of non-judgmental, tone-neutral discussion that you were hoping for when you started this thread. I get it now...

 

[Damon Lucas]

I'm not even sure where it was said that we're not huge fans of Jack, or Arnie. I've got to say my appreciation for Jack has quintupled since I have been reading Brian's analyses on him. Those with an agenda are only interested in their version of the facts. Fortunately, there is plenty of intellect around here to see through such efforts.

 

[faux_maestro]

hey tricky - I'm glad you liked conkanen's post. this must be the kind of non-judgmental, tone-neutral discussion that you were hoping for when you started this thread. I get it now...

That isn't judgmental. It's the facts. If you like Tiger or if you don't, the facts are the same. He was out banging porn stars and Perkins waitresses while his wife was home taking care of the kids. He was also abusing prescription painkillers and sleeping pills. That isn't judgmental, it IS tone neutral. It's the facts. Since when did stating facts become a problem?

 

[conkanen]

hey tricky - I'm glad you liked conkanen's post. this must be the kind of non-judgmental, tone-neutral discussion that you were hoping for when you started this thread. I get it now...

What's not to like?

 

[conkanen]

That isn't judgmental. It's the facts. If you like Tiger or if you don't, the facts are the same. He was out banging porn stars and Perkins waitresses while his wife was home taking care of the kids. He was also abusing prescription painkillers and sleeping pills. That isn't judgmental, it IS tone neutral. It's the facts. Since when did stating facts become a problem?

Thank you.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Guys,
Some of the above might be facts, possibly all of it!
I just don't really care, and don't think it is the point Ric was originally trying to make. The point was whether he would have a quality of life after golf - I see no reason why he wouldn't. Also, would he return to some level of proficiency? His record would suggest that he will, IMO. I think that the outpouring of hate and judgemental posts will only serve to focus him even more.
Time will tell, and everybody is entitled to think and feel whatever they want.

 

[faux_maestro]

Guys,
Some of the above might be facts, possibly all of it!
I just don't really care, and don't think it is the point Ric was originally trying to make. The point was whether he would have a quality of life after golf - I see no reason why he wouldn't. Also, would he return to some level of proficiency? His record would suggest that he will, IMO. I think that the outpouring of hate and judgemental posts will only serve to focus him even more.
Time will tell, and everybody is entitled to think and feel whatever they want.

I agree with this. I get it that some people don't like the choices Tiger made. I also get it that some people don't like the fact that their "hero"/the greatest player that most of us have seen in person has had his reputation tarnished and that some who live in glass houses have decided to throw a lot of stones at him.

MY opinion? I think if Tiger can get his leg right, AND get a win under his belt, he will be fine. He is too good. He just needs to get right physically AND mentally. A win will help the mental. My untrained eye likes how Tiger was swinging, AND maybe the Trackman knowledge from Brian through Sean Foley will bring some good things.

 

[birly-shirly]

That isn't judgmental. It's the facts. If you like Tiger or if you don't, the facts are the same. He was out banging porn stars and Perkins waitresses while his wife was home taking care of the kids. He was also abusing prescription painkillers and sleeping pills. That isn't judgmental, it IS tone neutral. It's the facts. Since when did stating facts become a problem?

My only problem is that some people want to compare "porn star banging, drug abusing" Tiger with "tremendous family men" Jack and Arnie and still pretend that they're not judging anyone. If you want to judge, then go right ahead but please be open about it, be prepared to argue your case and don't ask for your thread to be shut down when you're challenged.

Also, go right ahead and judge Tiger. He's been a lousy husband, and as a result is going to be an absent father. But let's keep a sense of perspective. Any random sampling of people is going to have its share of addicts, misanthropes, wife beaters, homophobes, tax evaders, racists and people who will improve their lie in the rough. I don't suppose that the tour will be any different in that regard.

Has Tiger ever said anything as crass as Jack's comments about black physiology? Or Arnie's conviction that he was qualified to advise the president on how to conduct a war? The point isn't that Tiger is better than Arnie or Jack but just that it's pointless to try and compare them if all you have to go on are autobiographies, fan-boy journalism and the National Enquirer.

 

[conkanen]

My only problem is that some people want to compare "porn star banging, drug abusing" Tiger with "tremendous family men" Jack and Arnie and still pretend that they're not judging anyone. If you want to judge, then go right ahead but please be open about it, be prepared to argue your case and don't ask for your thread to be shut down when you're challenged.

I ain't pretending anything my friend. Damn straight I am judging Tiger. We judge and are judged everyday of our lives. How the heck do to you know if you like or dislike the people you come across in life if you don't judge em. It's moral high road BS when we say "who are we to judge"...talk about sentimental BS.

Guess what, I have judged Arnie as well...don't really care for the way he handled the whole Peter Kesler thing a few years ago....and I think he's a little arrogant for my taste(yes I get they all are to some degree and that's how they become great so save it).

Jack? love the guy. Till he starts "porn star banging, drug abusing" I guess...How dare I!!!!!!!!

 

[birly-shirly]

no worries conkanen - you ain't pretending, and you're excused.

just curious whether you'd judge Tiger any differently if he'd been only a little bit unfaithful, and if he'd only used and not abused those prescription drugs?

and what do you love about Jack, apart from how he played golf? great sportsman and great sporting values - but is there anything else? wasn't he a lousy Ryder Cup captain?

 

[self-mastery]

My only problem with Tiger's cheating is that he didn't pick sexier women.

Back in Arnie's and Jack's day they knew how to maintain a mistress and a wife. The mistress knew her place was behind the wife and kids. Of course that was before the 24 hour news cycle, and before every bimbo with a youtube account thought she was a star. Back in the good ole days the whores shut their mouths and didn't run to the media. Her silence bought her a nice lifestyle, but now we all want to be stars. Somehow being a professional media whore became a career choice (hilton, kardashians, anderson). Tiger would have enjoyed playing back in the golden age of golf. He could have his women and all the privacy he wanted. He would probably have had to do the Mike Jackson skin treatment, but that's a small price to play 'real' golf with 'real' golf clubs and with 'real' golf balls. Ya know before technology, equality and talent destroyed the game.

 

[noobie]

I don't know how many people listen to Colin Cowherd. I think he likes to speak in hyperboles all the time but I thought he made an excellent point regarding Tiger. Tiger will not dominate again because there is no financial motivation to. He made $70mil + plus last year in endorsements. When you're making that much money without having to win tournaments, what's gonna drive you to get up at 6am and practice all day?

Yes beating Jack's record is motivation but at the end of the day, I believe a lot of that was how Tiger wanted to be remembered historically (as the best of all time). With all the sordid facts of his life coming out, I think Tiger has to say "I don't care what other people think of me anymore" otherwise he'll go crazy. Once he stops caring what people think of his flaws, he could very well stop caring how other people think about his accomplishments as well.

 

[conkanen]

My only problem with Tiger's cheating is that he didn't pick sexier women.

Back in Arnie's and Jack's day they knew how to maintain a mistress and a wife. The mistress knew her place was behind the wife and kids. Of course that was before the 24 hour news cycle, and before every bimbo with a youtube account thought she was a star. Back in the good ole days the whores shut their mouths and didn't run to the media. Her silence bought her a nice lifestyle, but now we all want to be stars. Somehow being a professional media whore became a career choice (hilton, kardashians, anderson). Tiger would have enjoyed playing back in the golden age of golf. He could have his women and all the privacy he wanted. He would probably have had to do the Mike Jackson skin treatment, but that's a small price to play 'real' golf with 'real' golf clubs and with 'real' golf balls. Ya know before technology, equality and talent destroyed the game.

Someone's been watching too much Mad Men me thinks.

 

[dbl]

I'm not sure about the actual original question, so....moving on a bit.

As far as quality of life in the future, it is alleged (despite PR) that Tiger had a BAD upbringing by a non-monogamous philandering father. So, if basically accurate, then imo, his family of origin issues will continue to raise it's head until dealt with more fully.

So my question is ...is Woods STILL going to therapy? Or was that just something to try to stave off the divorce? Is he in any ongoing recover program or treatments? Does he meet weekly in a group setting?

 

[faux_maestro]

I don't know how many people listen to Colin Cowherd. I think he likes to speak in hyperbole.......

I stopped listening to that hack last year when he went on his rant about Joey Votto's stats being inflated by Great American Ballpark even though if he (or one of his flunkies) had done 5 minutes of research he would have seen that nearly every stat was HIGHER on the road than at home. Then when called on it went on a 10 minute rant about how Ohio sucks in every possible way because it is nothing like New York City.