tigers shoulders

[pecky987]

this is back at the PGS championship. i dont know if hes still doing it now, but look how square his shoulders are at impact.

how does he get away with it and i do it i get a huge block!!!!

does it have something to do with Haney's 'gathering up the marbles'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp1BvVQbUTQ

 

[thefuture37]

he did block that one. look at his followthrough. you can tell he was trying to save it at the last minute.

 

[jeffgladchun]

Look at the December 2007 issue of Golf Digest:

Pages 87 and 89:

Page 87 - Tiger's shoulders look at best square, at worst closed.
Page 89 - Tiger hitting 3 wood, shoulders definitely square

My best guess is that Mr. Woods and Mr. Haney are following what Hogan "said" and not what he "did"

Brian, I am all ears for your thoughts on this!

 

[tongzilla]

hmm...let's see why it's square.

It's because Tiger thinks he spins his hips too much. And by trying to stop that, he has slowed down his whole pivot...to the extent that his shoulders aren't that open at impact.

My advise is the keep rotating those hips...but do it WITH the upper body. And make sure the arms are going in the same direction as the body...which will help him swing more left after impact.

 

[pecky987]

he did block that one. look at his followthrough. you can tell he was trying to save it at the last minute.

i thought that two, but heres another from the same tournament, and this one went straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2kO0pgNPG0

 

[Kevin Shields]

Interesting question. One thing i know for sure is if you work on Haney's congruent angle theory and rotate your shoulders open, hello slice. I see him do alot of drills that look like he somewhat throws the club out in front of him. The old "keep the club in front of you" stuff.

 

[mrodock]

Look at the December 2007 issue of Golf Digest:

Pages 87 and 89:

Page 87 - Tiger's shoulders look at best square, at worst closed.
Page 89 - Tiger hitting 3 wood, shoulders definitely square

My best guess is that Mr. Woods and Mr. Haney are following what Hogan "said" and not what he "did"

Brian, I am all ears for your thoughts on this!

If you watch the Hogan Collection . . . there are MANY swings where Hogan had his shoulders square and not open. In fact MOST of the swings . . .

So the answer to the question is it DEPENDS . . . on what? The shot!

Tiger and Hogan can do anything they want. You can find pictures of Hogan with shoulders open or closed.

Looks like Tiger blocked this shot due to the face to me. His hands go left but the face stayed open to the arc.

 

[birdie_man]

He has had problems with swinging too far to the right...

 

[thefuture37]

doesn't the square shoulders or open shoulders at impact just depend on the way you release the club? Tiger has never had his arms really close to his body at impact(ala david toms), rather his arms are almost fully extended. With that type of release, why would you want your shoulders more than a little bit open at impact? The idea would be that you want your arms to work back in front of your body to where they were at address. A player with the club closer to their body at impact would have to have their shoulders more open at impact, otherwise the club would never get back to the ball.

Why is there such disdain for any other big name teaching professional on this board(ie Haney). Tiger is a pretty smart guy, if he didn't think Haney and his ideas could help him, why would he continue to work with him? I think its pretty same to say that Tiger knows his swing and whats best for him more than any of us.

 

[self-mastery]

If Tiger knew what was best for him, then he wouldn't spray his driver all over the place. He could be so much better (this is where the girlie-men exalt him even more.) Imagine if he saw someone that actually knew how to fix him, and not just throw their theories down his throat. He is successful despite his retarded swing, and idiotic instruction. I think that you find a general disdain for pop instruction here because it doesn't work, has never worked, and will never work. All the BS video, training devices, superstar instructors, and line drawing has done nothing to lower handicaps over the last 100 years. I could probably do as good of job as [x] pop instructor if given a heard of talented players. TGC and golf rags are unintentionally satire.

Golf instruction...... MEH

 

[birdie_man]

Don't hold back now s-m...........

 

[thefuture37]

If Tiger knew what was best for him, then he wouldn't spray his driver all over the place. He could be so much better (this is where the girlie-men exalt him even more.) Imagine if he saw someone that actually knew how to fix him, and not just throw their theories down his throat. He is successful despite his retarded swing, and idiotic instruction. I think that you find a general disdain for pop instruction here because it doesn't work, has never worked, and will never work. All the BS video, training devices, superstar instructors, and line drawing has done nothing to lower handicaps over the last 100 years. I could probably do as good of job as [x] pop instructor if given a heard of talented players. TGC and golf rags are unintentionally satire.

Golf instruction...... MEH

Is Tiger's inaccuracy with driver because of a huge swing flaw or because of the inherent difficulty of swinging a 45in 460cc driver at 120+mph? My point isn't that Tiger's driver swing is perfect, its that there is no "bomber" on tour that drivers it super straight.

Your views on "pop instruction"(your definition is any instruction that doesn't come from Mr. Manzella, right?) not being valid because handicaps haven't come down doesn't make sense either. Improving your handicap takes alot of practice time and effort(not simply "knowing" what to change/improve), something most amateur golfers don't have. Furthermore, there are people that play golf just to relax and get away from it all, and don't really care about getting better.

You could do just as good as pop instructors with a herd of talented players? I assume you mean that you know their(the big name instructors) swing ideas(which is reasonable), but this also suggests that you can "teach" golf better than them. This is something Brian would probably take offense to, that is the downplaying of the ability to teach golf.

The golf channel and golf magazines are entertainment. Their goal isn't to ensure that their audience gets better at golf, its to entertain them. Surely you realize this.

 

[c21heel]

I hope Brian finds some time to give his input on Tiger's shoulders at impact. I'm not a golf instructor, but it seems to me if you use your pivot to square the clubface, the shoulders will be open at impact. If you use your hands and arms to square the clubface, the shoulders should be square to slightly closed at impact.

 

[tourdeep]

Horton "heard" a who!

If Tiger knew what was best for him, then he wouldn't spray his driver all over the place. He could be so much better (this is where the girlie-men exalt him even more.) Imagine if he saw someone that actually knew how to fix him, and not just throw their theories down his throat. He is successful despite his retarded swing, and idiotic instruction. I think that you find a general disdain for pop instruction here because it doesn't work, has never worked, and will never work. All the BS video, training devices, superstar instructors, and line drawing has done nothing to lower handicaps over the last 100 years. I could probably do as good of job as [x] pop instructor if given a heard of talented players. TGC and golf rags are unintentionally satire.

Golf instruction...... MEH

Let's see. Tiger says he's playing the best ever golf. He's won how many in a row worldwide after going on a how many win streak just recently?

And his instructor is an idiot. Whatever. Let's see if I got this part right. You say that you can do as good of a job, maybe even inferring better, if given a "heard" of talented players? OK, if you say so. I say stick with Horton and maybe ya got a chance, very slim at that, of being equal to those idiots. Leave the herd of other talent to the pros that know what's best for them.

The dude is a machine, his swing of today is the very best in the world for today Tiger. And it is so obvious that it ain't broke. If the instructor tied to his name at the time of his best play is Goober, then give hats off to Goober.

Let me roll with some more with you. Did I just read a post or yours on another thread about having a flat left, bent right wrist condition at impact? If it weren't for the yellow book and Neo preaching it, not sure if this would have been as evident for me. For you, maybe ya learned it from Dante's book since it is the only good book on golf instruction.

SM, maybe a bad hair day or did ya miss another three footer?

Lots of ghosts around here...

 

[shortgamer]

Tigers scoring average is 66.12 this year! Unbelievable. He's got 3 strokes on lefty per round

 

[Kevin Shields]

doesn't the square shoulders or open shoulders at impact just depend on the way you release the club? Tiger has never had his arms really close to his body at impact(ala david toms), rather his arms are almost fully extended. With that type of release, why would you want your shoulders more than a little bit open at impact? The idea would be that you want your arms to work back in front of your body to where they were at address. A player with the club closer to their body at impact would have to have their shoulders more open at impact, otherwise the club would never get back to the ball.

Why is there such disdain for any other big name teaching professional on this board(ie Haney). Tiger is a pretty smart guy, if he didn't think Haney and his ideas could help him, why would he continue to work with him? I think its pretty same to say that Tiger knows his swing and whats best for him more than any of us.

Pretty good point. It's not disdain as much as frustration from reading all mainstream instruction and not getting any better. I was just pointing out a particular swing methodology that surely would produce slices if your rotated your shoulders open. And he does battle the right side alot.

 

[birdie_man]

Tigers scoring average is 66.12 this year! Unbelievable. He's got 3 strokes on lefty per round

That is pretty amazing.....

...

**HOCK loogey**

(sorry I had to cleanse myself)

 

[thefuture37]

Pretty good point. It's not disdain as much as frustration from reading all mainstream instruction and not getting any better. I was just pointing out a particular swing methodology that surely would produce slices if your rotated your shoulders open. And he does battle the right side alot.

If Tiger showed up at my door and asked me why he misses right with driver, I would tell him its because he squats way too much at the beginning of the downswing and then jumps up through the ball through impact. Funny thing though, he knows that already! Theres a youtube of a clinic he gave somewhat recently where he talks about how thats one of his problems. Tiger knows what to do. His history predicts that he will figure it out after a while.

 

[self-mastery]

If the instructor tied to his name at the time of his best play is Goober, then give hats off to Goober.
Did I just read a post or yours on another thread about having a flat left, bent right wrist condition at impact? If it weren't for the yellow book and Neo preaching it, not sure if this would have been as evident for me. For you, maybe ya learned it from Dante's book since it is the only good book on golf instruction.

SM, maybe a bad hair day or did ya miss another three footer?

Always a pleasure to roll with you, tourdeep.

I'm not willing to give any instructor credit for Tigers success. Jim Flick could 'coach' Tiger to another 10 majors.

FLW Bent right wrist isn't only found in the Yellow Book. I learned that concept 10 years ago from the single axis fellows. My have I tried everything

The Dante book is better than TGM!!! It is more likely to produce a player, and not yet another theorist with pseudo-science, and 9th grade geometry.

Miss a three footer? Get real!!!

 

[birdie_man]

The golf channel and golf magazines are entertainment. Their goal isn't to ensure that their audience gets better at golf, its to entertain them. Surely you realize this.

I dunno about this statement.....

Not that anyone is gonna obligate them to to anything...

But shoot.....couldn't hurt if they did a better job than they do...